 1-Dec-82 04:07:05,540;000000000000
Date:     1 Dec 82 04:07:05 EST  (Wed)
From:     Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay>
Subject:  Re:  DIGITAL RESEARCH -- CBBS
To:       INFO-CPM at BRL
Cc:       DBrown at Parc-Maxc
Via:  UCF-CS; 1 Dec 82 4:41-EST
Via:  Udel-Relay; 1 Dec 82 5:57-EST
Via:  Brl; 1 Dec 82 6:04-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 6:30-EST

Yeah, but why do they have the 212A section of the R-V 3450P disabled?
I called the number and it looked interesting, but at 300 baud and
coast-to-coast phone rates it isn't ***THAT*** interesting!  
				Ben
 1-Dec-82 06:31:28,870;000000000000
Date:     1 Dec 82 8:31:28-EST (Wed)
From:     Bob Bloom (TECOM) <bbloom@BRL>
To:       "James Lewis Bean, Jr." <BEAN@Mit-Mc>
cc:       INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
Subject:  Re:  Wordstar's character width table.
Via:  Mit-Mc; 1 Dec 82 11:15-EST
Via:  Brl; 1 Dec 82 11:37-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 11:58-EST

The proportional space table of WordStar 3.0 starts at 07d8h.  It is
toggled in with ^P (this is undocumented in the operators manual).

Table starts with <sp> and continues in ASCII order to 0837h.  From the
manual: "bits 4-6 are moderate adjustments to apply to non-proportional
typewheels; value is relative width in 60ths, space=5.  bits 0-2 are
for true proportional spacing typewheel (theme p.s. 10, etc), space=3.
bits 0 and 4 are unassigned."

I'm not quite sure what that all means.  Values in those locations run
from 32 (.,') to 67 (W).
 1-Dec-82 06:31:28,870;000000000000
Date:     1 Dec 82 8:31:28-EST (Wed)
From:     Bob Bloom (TECOM) <bbloom@BRL>
To:       "James Lewis Bean, Jr." <BEAN@Mit-Mc>
cc:       INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
Subject:  Re:  Wordstar's character width table.
Via:  Mit-Mc; 1 Dec 82 10:51-EST
Via:  Brl; 1 Dec 82 11:19-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 11:55-EST

The proportional space table of WordStar 3.0 starts at 07d8h.  It is
toggled in with ^P (this is undocumented in the operators manual).

Table starts with <sp> and continues in ASCII order to 0837h.  From the
manual: "bits 4-6 are moderate adjustments to apply to non-proportional
typewheels; value is relative width in 60ths, space=5.  bits 0-2 are
for true proportional spacing typewheel (theme p.s. 10, etc), space=3.
bits 0 and 4 are unassigned."

I'm not quite sure what that all means.  Values in those locations run
from 32 (.,') to 67 (W).
 1-Dec-82 09:44:39,458;000000000000
Date: 1-Dec-82 08:44:39-PST (Wed)
From: helge at Ucb-C70 (Helge Skrivervik)
Message-Id: <8211011644.17924@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A17919; 1-Dec-82 08:44:44-PST (Wed)
To: info-cpm at Ucb-C70
Via:  Mit-Ai; 1 Dec 82 11:47-EST
Via:  Brl; 1 Dec 82 11:58-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 12:24-EST

I would appreciate to receive more info on MARC. Is it commercially available
yet??

Thanks,
-helge
 1-Dec-82 15:36:00,1260;000000000000
Date:  1 Dec 1982 1736-EST
From: Tony <Li@Rutgers>
Subject: CP/M 3.0
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Rutgers; 1 Dec 82 18:34-EST
Via:  Brl; 1 Dec 82 18:51-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 19:41-EST



I tend to agree with Lauren's analysis of CP/M Plus. I do think that
it is a big improvement over 2.2, but I also feel that it is not
enough of an improvement. Hopefully MARC will present us with a
better micro-os. CP/M has been out of date for many years now, and it
is time for some fresh blood. Micro-Unix of any flavor is probably
great for a hacker, but for the real business world, it would be a
disaster. 

For those of you who Hate DRI. Remember that DRI is not out to cater
to hackers, and that the money for DRI lies in large OEM-business
types. If you have problems with software that screws up page zero,
that's your problem. You can't expect a company to support someone
else's hack, especially when it is performing functions which are
specifically not meant to be done. What do you think DEC or IBM would
say if you poked one of their monitors (EXECs) and then blamed them
for bad software?

I come not to praise DRI or CP/M but to point out that it is
obsolete, and was never intended as a hacker's nirvana.

Tony
-------
 1-Dec-82 16:50:55,1010;000000000000
Date: 1 Dec 1982 15:31:46-PST
From: decvax!harpo!eagle!wheps!alc at Ucb-C70
Date: Wed Dec  1 15:50:55 1982
Message-Id: <8211012333.26838@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A26838; 1-Dec-82 15:33:09-PST (Wed)
Apparently-To: info-cpm
Via:  Mit-Ai; 1 Dec 82 18:48-EST
Via:  Brl; 1 Dec 82 19:06-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 19:43-EST

Maybe Marc is what I need. I sent mail to Lauren from a different machine
and have little hope of it getting there. I take this chance now while
I am on the machine that subscribes to netnews.
I would really appreciate a reply at whuxg!beal which is where I really
am and can be reached through harpo and others.
A quick summary of my original problem is that I have cpm 1.4 on a
controller which has been orphaned by the mfr and cannot get DR or
anybody to respond with enough info for me to really believe that I
could either bring up 2.2 or make any other useful changes.
		John Beal
		Bell Labs
		Whippany NJ
 1-Dec-82 18:18:33,2681;000000000000
Date: Wed Dec  1 1982 18:18:33 PST
From: Lauren Weinstein <vortex!lauren@Lbl-Unix>
Subject: MARC
To: clark.wbst at Parc-Maxc
CC: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Lbl-Unix; 2 Dec 82 20:08-EST
Via:  Brl; 2 Dec 82 20:15-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 20:20-EST

Greetings.  Yeah, your description is pretty accurate.  I like to
consider MARC to be sort of a V6/V7/4.1bsd hybrid -- over time I've
tried to add those features from V7 and Berkeley that I particularly
liked (and that made sense on a very small computer!)

Actually, the filesystem is very closely patterned after V6, primarily
because the V7 layout would probably have taken up too much overhead
space on people's small disks.  The MARC block size in 256 bytes, again
in keeping with the smaller scale of the system.  Many of the "obvious"
Unix utility commands are around -- in some cases (e.g. "cp", "mv") these
are patterned after V7 rather than V6.  The system calls include
"tell" (which of course is "late" V6).  Login startup files, private
bin directories, and similar V6/V7 features are supported.  We now
also have a "make" command (very similiar to V7 Unix "make" but not
as complex).  Very useful, however.  I have special versions of "sq", and
"usq" for MARC, but have yet to receive final permission to distribute
them with the basic system.

The C compiler is indeed a special version of BDS C, with long and
float subroutine packages.  The library support for MARC from the compiler
is extremely extensive.  The MARC stdio library is virtually identical
to the K&R Unix standard (makes life *alot* easier!).  The cp/m emulator
runs, and tries as hard as it can, but given the variety of insane
cp/m programs (some of which open 20 or 30 files w/o bothering to close
other files, etc.) it will never be able to handle EVERY program.  However,
it seems to do fine with most editors (like Wordmaster) and most of 
the language translators I've tested (MAC, M80, L80, TLC LISP, etc.).
A MARC version of MINCE is also available -- I couldn't get along without it.

Indeed, 'tis true that "vortex" is a Z80 running MARC.  In fact, I'm
typing this message directly into the MINCE that interfaces with my mail
generation software.  I *may* include my basic mail handling software
in the MARC package, or it may be included in a utility package later on.
I have *not* made any decisions about how I will handle release of my
MARC/BDS C UUCP code, except that I know it will not be part of the basic
MARC package.  (Whaddaya want for $250?)

MARC is not available yet.  It has taken a LONG time to get this far, and
hopefully there won't be too much more of a wait.

--Lauren--
 1-Dec-82 18:24:00,328;000000000000
Date: 1 Dec 1982 1724-PST
Sender: SCHNUR at Usc-Isie
Subject: LARKY
From: SCHNUR at Usc-Isie
To: info-cpm at BRL
Message-ID: <[USC-ISIE] 1-Dec-82 17:24:00.SCHNUR>
Via:  Usc-Isie; 1 Dec 82 20:26-EST
Via:  Brl; 1 Dec 82 20:37-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 20:50-EST

Is there a LARKY on the net. Please write me at isia.
 2-Dec-82 00:44:00,1627;000000000000
Date: 2 December 1982 02:44-EST
From: Paul L Kelley <PLK@Mit-Mc>
Subject: MODEM794
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
cc: W8SDZ at Mit-Mc, PLOUFF at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 2 Dec 82 3:10-EST
Via:  Brl; 2 Dec 82 3:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 3:32-EST


The following files are a new version of the MODEM7 package.

MC  CPM    AR61   MODEM7

  0   MCNFG  794ASM 3  12/01/82 02:28:05
  0   MCOSB  794ASM 2  12/01/82 02:35:15
  0   MNUM   794ASM 1  12/01/82 03:17:24
  0   MODEM  768DOC 4  11/11/82 23:10:55	<-- Unchanged
  0   MODEM  792LIB 4  11/19/82 23:00:55	<-- Unchanged
  0   MODEM  794ASM 17 12/02/82 00:54:47
  0   MODEM  794COM 4  12/02/82 01:24:19
  0   MODEM  794HEX 9  12/02/82 01:29:02
  0   MODEM  794HIS 4  12/02/82 00:50:48
  0   MODEM  794INF 1  12/01/82 02:32:42
  0   MODEM  794SET 1  12/01/82 02:31:04


;11/30/82   Made the following changes:
;
;		1. Put SECTNOE in proper location,
;		2. Added optional XOFF/XON testing to terminal mode
;		   file output routines,
;		3. Added MSPEED setting to PMMI baud rate routines,
;		4. Fixed quiet mode,
;		5. Expanded command line again to help novices,
;		6. Changed to XMODEM routine for receiver to
;		   request CRC mode from sender and added routine
;		   to switch to checksum mode after 6 timeouts.
;					P . L. Kelley and R. L. Plouffe

;11/26/82   Replaced "CDD" command with "LOG", and fixed associated code.
;	    Replaced "CUR" with "?" for easier working of a much used
;	    function. Shortened command line, same info in less space.
;           Normal changes to menus done to reflect new commands.
;							Mark J. Pulver
 2-Dec-82 01:16:00,347;000000000000
Date:  2 Dec 1982 0016-PST
From: Bill White <WHITE@Sumex-Aim>
Subject: TurboDOS and MuSys
To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 2 Dec 82 3:18-EST
Via:  Brl; 2 Dec 82 3:43-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 3:45-EST

Does anyone have any first hand experience with this CP/M "compatible" OS
(TurboDOS) or the company selling it (MuSys)?
-------
 2-Dec-82 03:55:00,1335;000000000000
Date:  2 Dec 1982 0555-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Ml>
Subject: Re: CP/M 3.0
To: Li at Rutgers
cc: info-cpm at BRL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 2-Dec-82 0048-EST
Via:  Mit-Ml; 2 Dec 82 6:00-EST
Via:  Brl; 2 Dec 82 6:11-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 6:21-EST

cp/m isn't all that bad, and neither is DR, either.
i've seen marc - it's good (looks PRETTY much like
unix(tm), but nuttin beats a VAX (are we not men?)
running Berkeley 4.1), however, the cost of the system
required to run it (it would seem that with all the
disk acessing you gotta do, you'd almost HAVE to have
a big winnie and maybe a BIG in-memory buffer (>1mbyte).
cp/m is good for just what it was intended for - a program
loader. however, it *is* simple enough that you can
do neat things.

DR isn't all that bad, either. Their documentation may
look like it was `crypted, translated in swahili,
crypted again, then typed up by a blind monkey', but
it *still* is readable and understandable (hell, IBM
doc isn't too bad either, once you get used to it). They
will also talk to people on their tech hotline who have
legitimate problems (or seem to). BTW, the last four
digits of their phone number spells MAMA(!).

oh well. i don't hate dr, and they are useful (pl/i-80
is pretty damn good).
					-andy
-------
 2-Dec-82 08:18:00,519;000000000000
Date: 2 Dec 1982 1018-EST (Thursday)
From: dudley at Nadc
Subject: How to reach John Beal
To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 2 Dec 82 10:32-EST
Via:  Brl; 2 Dec 82 10:40-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 11:06-EST

        I would like to reply to John Beals letter of  1-Dec  but
don't  understand  address  references  with shrieks (!) in them.
What   does  'whuxg!beal'   mean,    or    for    that    matter,
'decvax!harpo!eagle!wheps!alc@ucb-c70' ?
        thanks..                        dudley
-------
 2-Dec-82 12:07:00,1311;000000000000
Date:  2 Dec 1982 at 1107-PST
To: info-cpm at BRL
Cc: fylstra.tsca at Sri-Tsc
Subject: ISIS tools
From: fylstra.tsca at Sri-Tsc
Via:  Sri-Tsca; 2 Dec 82 11:23-PST
Via:  Sri-Tsc; 2 Dec 82 14:22-EST
Via:  Brl; 2 Dec 82 14:27-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 14:36-EST

I'd like to thank everyone responding to my last message about RT-11
tools.  At least a dozen people pointed me at RT11.C, the utility for
copying files between RT-11 and CP/M floppies.  After a long delay,
one person sent me an implementation of MODEM2 for RT-11, written in C.

Now I need the same thing for ISIS.  Does anyone have either of the following:

(a) implementation of MODEM2 that executes under ISIS.  Presumably this
    has to be made available on an ISIS SSSD diskette, unless there is
    a simple procedure for bootloading code over a serial line.

(b) a utility like RT11.C that runs under CP/M and copies files between
    ISIS and CP/M diskettes.  I seem to recall that such a thing exists
    in the CP/MUG library.

The problem with the latter is that the files we want to move exist on
an Intel SSDD floppy.  I rather doubt that it will be easy to get our
double density controllers to read those disks under CP/M.

Reply to me, please, and I'll summarize it there is interest.

Dave Fylstra
 2-Dec-82 13:10:10,1992;000000000000
Date:  2 Dec 1982 13:10:10 CST (Thursday)
From: Mike Meyer <mwm@Okc-Unix>
Subject: More on the MPM2 problem
To: info-cpm at Okc-Unix
Cc: mwm at Okc-Unix
Via:  Okc-Unix; 2 Dec 82 14:29-EST
Via:  Brl; 2 Dec 82 14:47-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 14:53-EST

The system walked on my mailbox, after I had seen that somebody had replied
to me on the MPM page zero problem, but before I read it. Since I couldn't
find the reply in the archives, I assume that it was addressed to me, and
not the list. Could whoever it was from please reply again.

While going through the archives, I noticed that somebody considered twisting
page zero and then complaining when it didn't workand DRI doesn't want to
help to be crass. I have a couple of comments:

	1) It wouldn't be so bad if they warned you about such things.
	2) They do fix page zero when it is page zero on a bank. I.e.,
		the code runs (correctly) in the first partition on each
		bank.
	3) This was CP/M software that somebody else wrote, and I was asked
		to move to MPM (don't ever let DRI fool you into thinking
		that those two are really compatable). DRI uses this trick
		for CP/M software themselves.
	4) I talked to the OEM who put wrote the BIOS. After looking at it
		(even thought it wasn't their problem), the decided that
		the BIOS never got control, and therefore the couldn't fix
		it. They told me not to other talking to DRI, as they had
		never been able to get a response from them.

On software compatability between MPM and CP/M. It does exist. As long as you
don't touch ANYTHING in the OS part of memory, don't do disk resets, and don't
do BIOS calls. I was
(unfortunately) stuck with moving a LOT of business software from MP/M to
CP/M. Like accounting stuff written in Microsoft BASIC. It broke at least
two of the three rules for CP/M software. Most screen oriented things will
also lose. I expect CP/M Plus to be more compatable with MP/M than with CP/M
2.2. *sigh*

	<mike
 2-Dec-82 13:27:00,1080;000000000000
Date:  2 Dec 1982 (Thursday) 1527-EST
From: MARON at Lll-Mfe
Subject: DTC SA1410 controller problem
To:   info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 2 Dec 82 20:35-EST
Via:  Brl; 2 Dec 82 20:46-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 20:54-EST

It may be of interest to some to know about hard disk controllers, 
specifically SASI compatible. I purchased a package from Hamilton-Avnet
of a Shugart SA600 and a SA1410 controller (actually made by DTC). It
seems (by talking to Shugart) that DTC installed an undocumented
feature requiring the command byte to be issued within 256microseconds
after selecting the controller or a SEQUENCE TIMEout error occurs. This
is not good (for the Big Board II and others). Shugart said that they
will trade boards for the newer version which removes this timeout.
This will make the DTC controller more compatible with others, like the
XEBEC etc. This trade-in function is to begin around the 6-10 of December.
If anyone has such a problem talk to their distributor. I will let you
know of developments if anyone responds that they care. --Neil
 2-Dec-82 16:52:00,528;000000000000
Date:  2 Dec 1982 1552-PST
From: Bill Rizzi <RIZZI@Usc-Isib>
Subject: command file drive
To: info-pc at Usc-Isib
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Usc-Isib; 2 Dec 82 19:38-EST
Via:  Brl; 2 Dec 82 19:46-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 19:47-EST



	Is it possible to determine from either a system call or the
internals of CP/M the drive from which a command file is read.  That is,
if "A>C:EDIT B:SOMEFILE" is typed, how can EDIT determine that is was
loaded from drive C ???

	Many thanks,
		Bill (RIZZI@ISIB)

-------
 2-Dec-82 18:47:00,670;000000000000
Date:  2 Dec 1982 at 1747-PST
To: info-cpm at BRL
Cc: fylstra.tsca at Sri-Tsc
Subject: yet another MODEM2...
From: fylstra.tsca at Sri-Tsc
Via:  Sri-Tsca; 2 Dec 82 17:54-PST
Via:  Sri-Tsc; 2 Dec 82 22:16-EST
Via:  Brl; 2 Dec 82 22:29-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 23:05-EST

Today I received a request from one of our users for an implementation
of MODEM2 for yet another unique combination of languages and operating
systems.  This time we need MODEM2 for...

	an 11/40 running RSX-11

	an LSI-11 running RT-11.

The preferred languages are (shudder) FORTRAN and MACRO-11.

Replies to me, and I'll summarize if there is any interest.

Dave Fylstra
 2-Dec-82 19:54:00,1563;000000000000
Date: 2 Dec 1982 19:54 EST
From: clark.wbst at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Re: How to reach John Beal
In-reply-to: dudley's message of 2 Dec 1982 1018-EST (Thursday)
To: dudley at Nadc
cc: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 2 Dec 82 20:10-EST
Via:  Brl; 2 Dec 82 20:18-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 20:21-EST

! is directly analogous to @, except it is grouped from the other end.  It
is a UUCP address.  Unix to Unix CoPy is a utility under unix whereby
machines call each other up to transfer files, send mail, or execute
processes on a remote machine.  normal phone lines and dial-up lines
are normally used with 300 or 1200 baud modems.  It is a good system
because anybody can call anybody, sites can be added or removed
arbirarily and easily.  It is a bad system because you have to know
the path through the network.

I don't know who calls whuxg .  It is a Bell labs machine in Whippany.
I sent a letter to John at wheps!alc (alc is someone's login) asking him
to help.   A shorter way to get to sheps from decvax is through zeppo,
so decvax!zeppo!wheps!alc@berkeley should work.  You see, berkeley
on the arpanet and ucbvax on uucp are the same machine... actually,
they are a network, but the mailers at berkeley understand... It will go
from you over the arpanet to berkeley.  berkeley is also ucbvax, and 
ucbvax talks to decvax.  decvax will send it to zeppo, who will send it
to wheps, who will say OH!  I know alc !  and put it in his (or her)
mailbox.

have fun...

			--Ray
			clark.wbst@parc-maxc (don't ask about dots... )
 2-Dec-82 23:12:00,965;000000000000
Date: 3 December 1982 01:12-EST
From: Herb Lin <LIN@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  MP/M questions
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 1:13-EST
Via:  Brl; 3 Dec 82 1:16-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 1:18-EST

1.  assume i want to be running MP/M with a z-80B and a hard disk with two
users doing MINCE-type word processing and maybe a printer job in the
background.  any comments on system degradation?  will response time
be acceptable?  or should i punt and go to a 16 bit multi-user system.

2.  assume I want to run with one terminal, but demand
foreground/background capability.  can i do this on an 8-bit
multi-user system?  will MP/M let me do this?  in principle, i want a
Concurrent CP/M 80 (by analogy to the 8086 version DR puts out), but i
don;t know of such a beast.  failing this, it seems that what i should able to do it just start up as one user a foreground job, and then as another user a background; possible?  help, please.

thanks.
 3-Dec-82 00:20:00,678;000000000000
Date: Friday, 3 December 1982  02:20-EST
Sender: RG.JMTURN.MIT-OZ at BRL
From: RG.JMTURN at Mit-Mc
To:   info-cpm at BRL
Subject: Moving disks from 8 to 5.25
Via:  Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 2:23-EST
Via:  Brl; 3 Dec 82 2:36-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 3:19-EST


Is anyone out there offering a service to convert 8 inch disks to
5.25 inch? I need to take some 8 inch CCS formatted double density,
and convert it either to Osborne, IBM PC, Xerox, or Morrow format
5.25 inch. Any ideas (I though of taking an 8 inch system, dumping
the COM files to HEX, and running LMODEM at 9600 baud directly wired
to a 5.25 inch system, but direct copying would be better.)

			James
 3-Dec-82 03:18:00,397;000000000000
Date: 3 December 1982 05:18-EST
From: Roger L Long <BYTE@Mit-Mc>
Subject: CP/M 3.0
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 5:18-EST
Via:  Brl; 3 Dec 82 5:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 5:31-EST

There is an ad from JADE in the December '82 issue of BYTE for CP/M 3.0
configured for the SBC-200 and Versafloppy II.  Price is $200 for entire
thing, or $30 for manuals only.

	-roger
 3-Dec-82 09:44:00,1019;000000000000
Date: 3 December 1982 11:44-EST
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  Moving files from 8 to 5.25 disks
To: RG.JMTURN.MIT-OZ at BRL
cc: Info-Cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 12:35-EST
Via:  Brl; 3 Dec 82 12:39-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 13:04-EST

I have two programs for doing that.  If you have an S-100 system and
if you can plug BOTH disk controllers into the buss without address or
port conflicts, you can bring up TWO CP/Ms in memory at the same time
(one smaller memory size than the other so they don't overlap).  My
programs allow transfer of multiple files between the two CP/Ms.  The
programs are TOHARD.ASM and FROMHARD.ASM (note you don't need a hard
disk to run them, they work with ANY disk systems that can run CP/M).

These programs are available on the net from MIT-MC as:
  AR24:CPM;FMHARD ASM
  AR24:CPM;TOHARD ASM

Both programs are meant to run on the SMALLER memory-sized CP/M.
They will accept all normal ambiguous filename references such as *.*,
*.ASM, etc.
 3-Dec-82 09:53:00,580;000000000000
Date: 3 December 1982 11:53-EST
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  ISIS tools
To: fylstra.tsca at Sri-Tsc
cc: Info-Cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 11:54-EST
Via:  Brl; 3 Dec 82 12:10-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 12:23-EST

I have ICOPY1.ASM which is an ISIS II to CP/M copy program that runs
on CP/M.  It's an improved version of the CPMUG program.  The original
would not transfer files larger than 16k.  If you're in a hurry for it
you can call my RCPM system (313)-759-6569 (callback).  It's on the
hard disk A: drive as ICOPY1.AQM (a squeezed file).
 3-Dec-82 10:57:31,710;000000000000
Date:     3 Dec 82 10:57:31 EST  (Fri)
From:     Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay>
Subject:  Re:  How to reach John Beal
To:       dudley at Nadc, info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Via:  UCF-CS; 4 Dec 82 19:35-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 5 Dec 82 17:47-EST
Via:  Brl; 5 Dec 82 18:17-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 18:31-EST

What you have there is a Usenet (uucp) address.  Your response should
go to the Berkeley mail gateway (Ucb-C70).  The uucp path is used
instead of a user name.  Thus 'decvax!harpo!eagle!wheps!alc @ Ucb-C70'
is a valid address.  BTW, the '!' if you haven't already figured it
out is used to separate path components; uucp is primitive and the
user must specify the appropriate path himself.
 3-Dec-82 16:16:00,613;000000000000
Date: 3 December 1982 18:16-EST
From: Charlie Strom <CSTROM@Mit-Mc>
Subject: MENU files on MC
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 18:18-EST
Via:  Brl; 3 Dec 82 18:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 18:31-EST

I have uploaded the following files to MC:

		AR23:CPM;MENU COM
		         MENU DOC

These files are supposed to allow a menu structure under CP/M on the
application level. I must admit that I have not had a chance to try
the program out myself. I understand that the author is already in
the process of adding additional capabilities and refinements, and
I will upload as received.
 3-Dec-82 16:29:00,433;000000000000
Date: 3 December 1982 18:29-EST
From: Eliot Scott Ramey <ELIOT@Mit-Mc>
Subject: MARC
To: vortex!lauren at Lbl-Unix
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 18:30-EST
Via:  Brl; 3 Dec 82 18:39-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 18:44-EST

The one question that comes to mind is: with all these features, and what not,
(is it written in C or ASM, if asm 8080 or Z-80?) how big is it?  It must
be huge!

						-Eliot at Mit-DM
 3-Dec-82 17:24:54,2121;000000000000
Date: Fri Dec  3 1982 17:24:54 PST
From: Lauren Weinstein <vortex!lauren@Lbl-Unix>
Subject: MARC
To: RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ at Mit-Ml
CC: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Lbl-Unix; 5 Dec 82 22:56-EST
Via:  Brl; 5 Dec 82 23:17-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 23:26-EST

I'm glad you've seen MARC, but please don't spread misinformation
around!  MARC does NOT require "BIG in-memory buffers".  All existing
MARC implementations run within 64K bytes.  I have run MARC successfully
in as little as 48K, but admittedly that was a bit cramped for getting
anything useful done.  You DON'T need a "big winnie" either.  Hard
disks are nice on almost any system, but MARC will run fine even on
single-density 8 inch floppies.  Since there are so many utilities
(resulting in a pretty large /bin) it's nice to have double-density
floppies so that you can fit all the utilities onto your root disk, but
even running single-density it is fairly trivial to simply put most
of your "infrequently used" programs on a different filesystem (floppy).

I've never been able to figure out exactly how to benchmark MARC, but
on my single-density system, the access times generally seem to be
at least as good as I get for CP/M, overall.  Certain tasks might
take a bit longer and some a bit shorter, but overall the feeling
is that they are very similar.  Note that MARC does NOT handle disk
accessing (internally) exactly the same way as UNIX, and there have
been conscious design decisions made with an eye toward good performance
on smaller disks (for example, file block buffering is handled differently,
and the shell search path is essentially reversed from that of standard
Unix).

Most of the test sites ran double-density systems with 58-64K bytes,
and they generally reported that performance was very good, even 
with their simple floppy systems.  Obviously the quality of your
BIOS, and similiar factors, will impact overall performance, and a
hierarchical filesystem implies more time spent performing certain
tasks (and less time performing others), but overall the reaction
has been very good.

--Lauren--
 3-Dec-82 18:33:00,348;000000000000
Date: 3 December 1982 20:33-EST
From: James E Reece <REECE@Mit-Mc>
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 21:22-EST
Via:  Brl; 3 Dec 82 21:32-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 21:47-EST

I have a rather urgent need to find out about the quality,
reliability, etc. of the Godbout computer.  Can any of you
tell me any stories (good or bad)?
 3-Dec-82 20:58:00,861;000000000000
Date: 3 December 1982 22:58-EST
From: Michael C Adler <MADLER@Mit-Ml>
Subject: XSUB modification
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Ml; 3 Dec 82 22:57-EST
Via:  Brl; 3 Dec 82 23:05-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 23:20-EST

XSUB (at least the version I have) appends a CR/LF combination to the
end of input lines.  The BDOS, I assume, expects only CR or LF (preferably
CR) at the end of an input line.  As a result, .SUB files that use XSUB
tend to have extra line feeds in them.  This can be eliminated with the
following patch:

Change each of bytes 02D7 through 02D9 of XSUB to 0.  This wipes out a
	MVI A,0A
	INX H
set of instructions and prevents the LF from being put in the buffer.

I am not sure that the LF is unnecessary for some obscure reason.  If it
is, I will be sure to find out in a situation where speed is most critical.
-Michael
 3-Dec-82 21:37:00,670;000000000000
Date: 3 December 1982 23:37-EST
From: Frank J Wancho <FJW@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  MP/M questions
To: LIN at Mit-Mc
cc: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 23:39-EST
Via:  Brl; 3 Dec 82 23:47-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 4 Dec 82 0:05-EST

Concurrent CP/M-80 is entirely possible and feasible, although I can't
say that anyone has actually done it (yet).  The principal is
relatively simple: take the example of a bank-switched,
interrupt-driven, multi-user system, add a small exec in the common
area, and turn it around so that you can select your current home bank
while the interrupts allow the processor to service any activities of
the other banks...

--Frank
 3-Dec-82 21:59:00,728;000000000000
Date:  3 Dec 1982 2359-EST
From: John S Labovitz <RMS.G.HNIJ.MIT-OZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: Aztec C
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 4 Dec 82 0:56-EST
Via:  Brl; 4 Dec 82 1:05-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 4 Dec 82 1:44-EST


	Has anyone had any experience with the Aztec C compiler for either
CP/M or HDOS?  If so, what's your opinion on:

	* Speed.  We need to use it for communication programs, so we
	  need it FAST!  How does it compare with BDS C?

	* M80/L80 compatibility.  We have some assembly code that's
	  written for M80/L80.

	* Library.  Is the library full C (such as the file I/O).

	* Compiling time.  Is it as slow as Whitesmiths?

Thanx very much.

			John Labovitz
			(RMS.G.HNIJ@MIT-OZ)
-------
 4-Dec-82 01:01:00,947;000000000000
Date: 4 December 1982 03:01-EST
From: Dan Blumenfeld <DAN@Mit-Ml>
Subject: Z80 to 8086 translator
To: HPLABS!HP-PCD!CHARLIE at Mit-Ml
cc: Info-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Ml; 4 Dec 82 3:00-EST
Via:  Brl; 4 Dec 82 3:15-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 4 Dec 82 3:26-EST

A translator which does this is available from Sorcim.  Its called TRANS86,
and it runs under CPM-80.  It takes 8080 or Z80 code and translates it
to ACT86 code.  ACT86 code is Sorcim's answer to Intel's mnemonics for the
8086.  If you have a "normal" 8086 assembler, it will barf on ACT86 code,
but an ACT86 assembler is also available, which produces .HEX files.
Of course, the translator sometimes has problems converting 8080/Z80
code to 8086, but fortunately it flags everything that could cause
problems.  If you get disgusted with the ACT86 mnemonics, you could
probably write a postprocessor in PASCAL, etc. to covert them to Intel's
standard.  Hope this helps...

Dan
 4-Dec-82 04:43:00,671;000000000000
Date: 4 December 1982 06:43-EST
From: Eric O Stork <STORK@Mit-Mc>
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 4 Dec 82 6:58-EST
Via:  Brl; 4 Dec 82 7:09-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 4 Dec 82 7:24-EST

Subject: Portable Micros.
My son is off to college soon.  He's been doing his work on
a micro for over two years, and I can't expect him to go back to a
typewriter, so am planning to get him a portale micro (like OSBORNE,
KAYPRO, what have you).
Question:  What experience have people had with various units? Any
advice of what to get (not to get)?  Any reason to wait a
few months because something much better is just around the corner?
Comments will be much appreciated.
 4-Dec-82 12:39:00,492;000000000000
Date: 4 December 1982 14:39-EST
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: MODEM7xx for Osborne
To: Info-Cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 4 Dec 82 14:55-EST
Via:  Brl; 4 Dec 82 15:04-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 4 Dec 82 16:01-EST

Osborne computer users should note that the latest version
of MODEM7 (MODEM794) now has a configuration file for your
system.  This means it will no longer be necessary to have
separate versions of MODEM7xx for the Osborne.

See AR61:CPM;MCOSB 794ASM on MIT-MC.
 5-Dec-82 02:44:07,1256;000000000000
Date: 5-Dec-82 01:44:07-PST (Sun)
From: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 (David Allen Gewirtz)
Subject: Aztec C
Message-Id: <8211050944.6779@UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.224 [10/16/82])
	id A06778; 5-Dec-82 01:44:09-PST (Sun)
Received: from UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A02504; 5-Dec-82 01:42:24-PST (Sun)
To: RMS.G.HNIJ.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Ucb-C70; 5 Dec 82 4:43-EST
Via:  Brl; 5 Dec 82 4:46-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 5:27-EST

Aztec C is a good overall C Compiler, though BDS C is better
for those who like all sorts of neat goodies like a symbolic debugger
and a package that is easier to use.  Aztec is slightly faster in execution
to BDS C and can work with M80/L80 stuff.  It compiles MUCH faster
than Whitesmiths (A monkey could hand-compile code faster than 
whitesmiths.)  For further time information on both compilation
and interpretation, see my articles in November/December 1981
and Jan/Feb 1982 for reviews of BDS C and Whitesmiths, and Nov/Dec 1982
for reviews of Aztec and C/80.

Overall, I prefer to program in BDS, but if I needed full C usage
including register variables, I would use Aztec without a second
thought.

David
 5-Dec-82 02:45:04,614;000000000000
Date: 5-Dec-82 01:45:04-PST (Sun)
From: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 (David Allen Gewirtz)
Subject: Aztec C
Message-Id: <8211050945.6796@UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.224 [10/16/82])
	id A06791; 5-Dec-82 01:45:07-PST (Sun)
Received: from UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A02519; 5-Dec-82 01:43:22-PST (Sun)
To: RMS.G.HNIJ.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Ucb-C70; 5 Dec 82 4:45-EST
Via:  Brl; 5 Dec 82 4:58-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 5:28-EST

Oops..those articles are in Microsystems Magazine.

Sorry for the omission.

David
 5-Dec-82 02:53:38,1873;000000000000
Date: 5-Dec-82 01:53:38-PST (Sun)
From: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 (David Allen Gewirtz)
Subject: portable machines
Message-Id: <8211050953.6818@UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.224 [10/16/82])
	id A06817; 5-Dec-82 01:53:40-PST (Sun)
Received: from UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A02652; 5-Dec-82 01:51:55-PST (Sun)
To: STORK at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Ucb-C70; 5 Dec 82 4:54-EST
Via:  Brl; 5 Dec 82 4:58-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 5:29-EST


New machines were just released at Comdex this past week.
Unfortunately, my literature hasn't shown up yet, so I will
work from memory.  

There were a number of new CP/M portables announced, most notably
the Jonos Computer out of Anahiem, CA using the new Sony floppies.
Cute little toy, uses STD bus, so it can be diddled.

On the 8088 side, there were a few released, most notably the
DOT from Computer Devices of Burlington MA, the Chameleon from
someplace, and the Compac, also from someplace, but my guess as the
winner.

The DOT: an 8088 machine using Sony 3" floppies.  Not bad.
The Chameleon.  "IBM PC Compatible" selling for $1995 and using
	an 8088 and Z80..best price machine, but company seemed
	underfunded.  Wouldn't take a chance.

The Compac - funded by Sevin Rosen and designed to be hardware
	and software compatible with the IBM PC.  This means that
	you can go out and buy the thing and with add on cards
	use any processor from a Z80 - 8088 - 8086 - 286 - 68000
	and OS's from CP/M - PC-DOS - CP/M-86 - Concurrent CP/M - XENIX.
	Since its heavily funded and a rather nice machine and portable
	it would be the best bet.  Look to magazine adds or ask
	you local computer stores.  It should be getting lots
	of press.  I would probably check it out over the Kaypro.

Don't buy an Osborne.

David
 5-Dec-82 15:22:00,2334;000000000000
Date: Sun Dec  5 16:22 CST 1982
From: decvax!ihuxf!larry at Ucb-C70
Subject: Re: Aztec C compiler
Message-Id: <8211060625.22038@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A22036; 5-Dec-82 22:25:03-PST (Sun)
Postdate: Sun Dec  5 16:22:13 1982
To: decvax!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70
Via:  Mit-Ai; 6 Dec 82 4:11-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 4:19-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 4:21-EST


In reply to the quesion about Aztec C compiler --how good is it?  Here
is my impression:

	I think it is a pretty nice compiler.  MUCH faster than
Whitesmith's (both compilation time and execution time).  The benchmarks
I've seen it run plus/minus 10% of BDS (that is usually on of the
fastest).  A BIG speed up can happen when you code using the "register"
type variables.  I used to use BDS, but have been won over to Aztec for
these reasons:

	1) floats/doubles/longs  its nice to have a FULL implimentation
of data types

	2) statics & globals   its nice to have the FULL storage types
(note that BDS does have global variables, but compiler is 'picky' about
the order placement in multiple files)

	3) I LIKE to be able to see the .asm output.  BDS jumps right
from .c -> linkable file (essentially object code).  One of the things
that is interesting (to me) is what code gets generated for a particular
set of statements.  Guess I'm just nosey, but that's one of the things I
bought my micro for!!

	4) the library is just as K & R describe it.  Whitesmith (for
some reason) provide a standard lib, but NAME things differently.  BDS
has the right names, but becuause it lacks 1 and 2, can't do all the
functions exactly right --resulting in "funny" file i/o and some other
things.
-----

	As far as compatibility with M80/L80 -- it works just fine with
them.  (that feature is one of their selling points)


	There are some drawbacks with Aztec -- the way the library and
linker work.  The linker will load more than it really needs, so the
object file tends to be bigger than needed.  (note that L80 has the same
problem)  I have been converting the .asm & .c files in the library to
use the TDL asm and linker.  This pair do a better job of linking the
library.  This can result in a BIG savings in small programs.


		Larry Marek
		 Bell Labs, Naperville
 5-Dec-82 18:27:00,352;000000000000
Date:  5 Dec 1982 2027-EST
From: Sean D True <SEAN.MIT-OZ@BRL>
Subject: Device independent graphics?
To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 5 Dec 82 20:29-EST
Via:  Brl; 5 Dec 82 21:15-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 21:23-EST

	Is anyone out there working on device independent graphics
for CPM?  Particularly in C??
	sean (sean@mit-oz)
-------
 5-Dec-82 19:17:00,568;000000000000
Date: 5 December 1982 21:17-EST
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  CP/M for TRS80 Mod I/Lobo
To: Info-Cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 5 Dec 82 22:14-EST
Via:  Brl; 5 Dec 82 22:21-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 22:51-EST

I have received an inquiry about whether CP/M is available for the
TRS80 Model I equipped with a Lobo Drives expansion interface.  The
owner has LDOS, two MPI-B51 40-track single-density drives, and an
MX-80 printer.

He says that the Omicron "mapper" will not work with this setup.  Does
anyone know of an alternative?

--Keith
 5-Dec-82 22:19:00,1204;000000000000
Date: 6 December 1982 00:19-EST
From: Dan Blumenfeld <DAN@Mit-Ml>
Subject: Device Independent Graphics for CP/M
To: Sean.MIT-OZ at BRL
cc: Info-CPM at BRL, Info-Graphics at Utexas-20
Via:  Mit-Ml; 6 Dec 82 0:20-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 0:26-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 0:36-EST

After seeing an ad from Digital Research entitled "CP/M Graphics"
(InfoWorld, Nov 29, p 93), I gave them a call.  While it's not yet
available, DR will soon release what they call GSX, a device
independent graphics package which will run under CP/M.   This will
include GSS-Kernel, which is their implementation of the Graphics
Kernel System (GKS).  Another package will be GSS-PLOT, which lets you
generate bar graphs, histograms, pie charts, etc. (probably similar
to ISSCO's TellaGraf).  GSX will be available for both CP/M-80 and
CP/M-86 hosts, and can be linked with CBASIC, Pascal MT+, PL/I, and
FORTRAN (which means these libaraies are most likely supplied as
 .REL files).  From what I was told on the phone, the user supplies
simple drivers which tell GSX how to plot points, move the "pen", etc.
for each device to be supported.  Unfortunately, they didn't have
pricing info available.

Dan
 5-Dec-82 22:46:00,373;000000000000
Date:  6 DEC 1982 0046-EST
From: JDOS at Mit-Ai (John Paul McNamee)
Subject: TRS80 Model II MODEM7
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
CC: INFO-TRS80 at Mit-Ai
Via:  Mit-Ai; 6 Dec 82 0:46-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 1:05-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 1:09-EST

I have been asked for the MODEM7 parameters to make it run on
a TRS-80 Model II. Does anybody have them?

		John McNamee
 6-Dec-82 00:33:00,654;000000000000
Date:  6 Dec 1982 0233-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@BRL>
Subject: Re: Device independent graphics?
To: SEAN.MIT-OZ at BRL
cc: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
In-Reply-To: Your message of 5-Dec-82 2237-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 6 Dec 82 3:16-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 3:37-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 3:56-EST

there's compco's (in wisconsin, i think - it's been a while)
GSP (graphics subroutine package). it's fortran-80 compatible,
and it's a good package. if it doesn't already support your device,
you can write a new driver (it has LOTS of devices
built in - i should know, we provided them with about 3 drivers...)
					-andy
-------
 6-Dec-82 01:18:40,2003;000000000000
Date: Mon Dec  6 1982 01:18:40 PST
From: Lauren Weinstein <vortex!lauren@Lbl-Unix>
Subject: MARC's size
To: ELIOT at Mit-Mc
CC: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Lbl-Unix; 6 Dec 82 6:49-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 6:53-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 7:00-EST

Lessee.  Currently, the non-overlayable portion of the kernel
is around 14.5K bytes.  On my system here, which has a monstrous
hard disk/floppy disk BIOS, I usually have around 46K free for user
programs.  I have found this to be large enough for all my work, including
compiling and running my UUCP and mailsystem code.  Oh yes, I lose another
couple of K in my system due to reserved space for the MARC BYE program
which supports dialup access to UUCP and the like, so 48K is probably
a more realistic figure for my big BIOS when *not* running in dialup
mode.  The CP/M emulator is around 2K bytes, but it only loads when
you need it (when you try to run a program which has the CP/M "tag"
bit set [the same bit used as the "sticky" bit under UNIX]).

Note that user programs under MARC tend to be smaller than under CP/M, since
much terminal and disk I/O code that is duplicated in almost every CP/M
program is unnecessary under MARC, since the MARC kernel provides much
more advanced facilities in those areas than does CP/M.

The kernel is written in 8080 assembler.  Investigation showed a trivial
size decrease for conversion to Z80 code, and would have locked out the
people with fast 8085's, so conversion was not attempted.  Utility
programs are a mixed bag.  Some of them are in assembler and some 
(particularly the more recent/complex ones) are in BDS C.

I can only say that during all the work I do here at vortex, I haven't
found the amount of free memory to be a problem.  I'm looking into the
issues of putting the kernel in a separate bank of memory, but this
will clearly not happen until after the basic MARC is out and I have some
reason to believe it will be accepted in the marketplace.

--Lauren--
 6-Dec-82 06:48:00,882;000000000000
Date:     6 Dec 82 08:48-EST (Mon)
From:     Robert Heller <heller.umass-coins@Udel-Relay>
To:       info-vax at Sri-Csl, info-cpm at Mit-Mc
cc:       heller.umass-coins at Udel-Relay
Subject:  CP/M disk i/o info needed
Via:  UMASS-COINS; 7 Dec 82 3:32-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 4:16-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:39-EST

	I need to know how to read a CP/M single-density/single-sided
8" floppy on a RX02 on a VAX-11/780 under VMS 3.0.  I plan to get a
copy of the Small-C compiler v2 (described in the current Dr. Dobb's
Journal, #74) and convert it to generate 68000 code (i will make both
a cross-compiler to run on the VAX under VMS and a native mode
version to run on a Corvus Concept).  If anyone can help me send mail
to heller.umass-coins@udel-relay.  Thanks in advance.

				robert heller
				heller.umass-coins@udel-relay
 6-Dec-82 11:06:00,2477;000000000000
Date: 6 Dec 1982 at 1006-PST (Monday)
From: teklabs!tekcrd!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70
Subject: Re: id A11717; 4-Dec-82 05:26:42-PST (Sat)
Message-Id: <60852.320.ucbcad@Berkeley>
Received: from ucbvax by UCBCAD (3.147 [7/22/82]) id ; 6-Dec-82 14:19:25-PST (Mon)
Received: from  by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A09425; 6-Dec-82 14:19:10-PST (Mon)
To: azure!tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm at Ucb-C70
In-Reply-To: Your news article ucbvax.210 of Sat Dec  4 05:26:56 1982
Via:  Mit-Ai; 6 Dec 82 17:24-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 17:39-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 17:46-EST

Regarding portables for sons-off-to-college:

I have used the Kaypro-II, thought it an adequate solution.  The Osborne
doesn't please me very much, but I haven't seen it outside the showroom.
I do like the Kaypro for what it offers, which is a simple CP/M system,
without a whole lot of extra features.  If 64K is enough main store, and
200K on each of two drives is enough mass store, then it ought to be
adequate for a freshman or sophomore.  

The best portable (truly defining the term "portable"; the Kaypro and
Osborne are merely "moveable") system, at least from my engineering
standpoint, is the OTRONA Attache.

The Attache is also a 64K CP/M system, 360K per shock-mounted disk drive.
But it has a LOT of big pluses, which can't all be listed here, but
include:
	Real time clock
	Bus extender (S-100, GPIB, STD)
	DMA
	Fully interrupt driven
	Graphics (damn good, too)
	comes with Wordstar (customized to keyboard), MBASIC(for what
		it's worth), software to utilize the clock, graphics
		tools, a RPN calculator, nice version of CP/M...
	
The cost is a little higher ($3995), but it's engineering cost well
spent.  The system is professional, harddisk, 16-bit processor are
planned extensions, battery-pack is available, 12-volt for use in
campers etc, high-resolution screen, the list is long.  

The machine is an 8-bitter that will carry the user a long way into
the future (specifically through college and graduate school and
them some).  I am impressed with the machine and plan to acquire one.
You may wish to contact OTRONA at
	OTRONA Corporation
	4755 Walnut Street
	Boulder, Colorado 80301
		
		(303) 444-8100
	
My name is 	Scott Herzinger
		Software Engineering
		Microcomputer Development Products
		Tektronix, Inc
		PO Box 500, MS 92/525
		Beaverton, Oregon

uucp:		tekmdp!scott
		  ^
		  |_____ (I think)
 6-Dec-82 11:14:00,964;000000000000
Date: 6 Dec 1982 at 1014-PST (Monday)
From: teklabs!tekcrd!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70
Subject: Re: id A11717; 4-Dec-82 05:26:42-PST (Sat)
Message-Id: <60852.328.ucbcad@Berkeley>
Received: from ucbvax by UCBCAD (3.147 [7/22/82]) id ; 6-Dec-82 14:19:44-PST (Mon)
Received: from  by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A09429; 6-Dec-82 14:19:28-PST (Mon)
To: azure!tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm at Ucb-C70
In-Reply-To: Your news article ucbvax.210 of Sat Dec  4 05:26:56 1982
Via:  Mit-Ai; 6 Dec 82 17:21-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 17:39-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 17:44-EST

From:	Scott Herzinger on OTRONA Attache

	Just found out that my uucp address is:

	tektronix!tekmdp!scotth

	for whatever that's worth.  I can't give justice to the
	OTRONA.  It's a beautifully engineered system.  I will
	be sending my compliments to the engineers.  After seeing
	the system, you probably will, too.
	the system, you probably will, too.
 6-Dec-82 11:26:00,1803;000000000000
Date: 6 Dec 1982 at 1026-PST (Monday)
From: teklabs!tekcrd!tekmdp!kennethw at Ucb-C70
Subject: Re: Aztec C
Message-Id: <60852.338.ucbcad@Berkeley>
Received: from ucbvax by UCBCAD (3.147 [7/22/82]) id ; 6-Dec-82 14:20:04-PST (Mon)
Received: from  by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A09434; 6-Dec-82 14:19:50-PST (Mon)
To: tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm at Ucb-C70
In-Reply-To: Your news article ucbvax.208 of Sat Dec  4 01:22:24 1982
Via:  Mit-Ai; 6 Dec 82 17:22-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 17:39-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 17:45-EST

	I have the AZTEC C compiler for the HDOS system.  The
compiler itself seems to be quite good and generates fast code.
My benchmarks show that it is faster than BDS in running the BYTE
prime number benchmark.   The library is quite complete and does
support all the normal file I/O features.  The output source code
of the compiler can also be assembled using an M80 compiler if desired.

	Now for the bad news!  The support of this product stinks.
There are several small problems in the library (you can't write to the
line printer, for example) and I have been totally unable to get
any help out of MANX software on the problems.  I am also unable to fix
the problems since there library program does not work.

	I have called and written to MANX several times and have received
either no answer or a very nasty one.  They just are not willing to support
there compiler, which is too bad because it is basically a good product.

	I would like to hear any other comments on the AZTEC compiler myself,
especially if someone has managed to get the compiler working.
Please post any useful information to the net.  Thanks very much.

			Ken West
			TEKTRONIX
			Box 4600
			Beaverton Oregon 97075
			(503) 629-1533
 6-Dec-82 12:06:00,388;000000000000
Date: 6 Dec 1982 12:06 EST
From: clark.wbst at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Re: 
In-reply-to: REECE's message of 3 December 1982 20:33-EST
To: James E Reece <REECE@Mit-Mc>
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Parc-Maxc; 6 Dec 82 12:08-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 12:20-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 12:36-EST

Someplace recently [prob DEC Byte or DDJ or some other one] I read alot
of praises for it...
 6-Dec-82 17:14:00,928;000000000000
Date: 6 December 1982 19:14-EST
From: Eliot Scott Ramey <ELIOT@Mit-Mc>
Subject: MARC's size
To: vortex!lauren at Lbl-Unix
cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 6 Dec 82 19:30-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 19:37-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 19:45-EST

Thanx for the prompt reply.  It is not as Big is i had expected it to be.
You continue to talk about a modified BDS-C that comes with MARC (what does
MARC stand for?).  Is this modified BDS-C a modification of the most recent
version of BDS-C (V1.5 i think)?  You mentioned that some of the utilities
are mixed bag z80 and 8080, are you using a Z80 library for BDS-C?  Is there
a Z80 library available for your modification to BDS-C?  

How often do YOU use the CPM emulator?  It would seem that there is SO much
software for CPM that one might find it hard to go without?  How much
is already available (Public Domain) for MARC right NOW?

						-Eliot at Mit-DM
 6-Dec-82 17:19:00,598;000000000000
Date: 6 December 1982 19:19-EST
From: Eliot Scott Ramey <ELIOT@Mit-Mc>
Subject: Re: Aztec C compiler
To: decvax!ihuxf!larry at Ucb-C70
cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 6 Dec 82 19:31-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 19:37-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 19:46-EST


	I have heard that Aztec-C II comes with TWO compilers and libraries.
One compiler/library set for 8080 code and one set for Z80 code.
Supposedly the Z80 compiler/library set can make some code that is
really quite fast and small compared to the 8080 set.  Is any of this
true?  Or is it just rumor?

						-Eliot at Mit-DM
 6-Dec-82 18:53:00,1201;000000000000
Date: 6 Dec 1982 2053-EST
From: ELIOT at Mit-Dms (Eliot Scott Ramey)
To: info-cpm at BRL
Subject: large TPA's
Message-id: <[MIT-DMS].251566>
Via:  Mit-Dms; 6 Dec 82 20:53-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 21:08-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 21:31-EST

	I have not been keeping up with the discussion on the larger TPA
of CPM Plus when used with bank switch memory, but here is a thought
to ponder.  While MOST people probably wont go to the larger TPA CP/M
due to cost, and not wanting to upgrade for one reason or another,
I see no reason to ignore the large TPA.  How many of you have been able
to get a 48k program out of L80?  I will bet that NO ONE has.  It cannot
be done!  L80 uses so much space for symbol tables and what not, and Micro-
Soft has not yet learned how to write things to disk when they are supposed
to be written there, so that L80 cannot make I file much bigger than 40k
on the AVERAGE cpm system.  So now with the LARGER TPA we can make programs
that are bigger, and they will still run on the systems that dont have the
large TPA because it can be kept with in the limits and still be
bigger than the programs we used to be able to write.

						-Eliot at Mit-DM
 6-Dec-82 19:01:00,1017;000000000000
Date: 6 Dec 1982 2101-EST
From: ELIOT at Mit-Dms (Eliot Scott Ramey)
To: info-cpm at BRL
Subject: Why won't CPM Plus work?
Message-id: <[MIT-DMS].251567>
Via:  Mit-Dms; 6 Dec 82 21:01-EST
Via:  Brl; 6 Dec 82 21:09-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 21:32-EST


	Lauren has been telling us that CPM Plus will cause many problems
when we try to run programs that were written for CPM2.2 if these programs
do any kind of disk i/o.  He claims the reason is that the new BDOS
does the blocking/deblocking in the BDOS and that screws things up.
Why should this screw things up?  Isn't the new BDOS supposed to 
>>LOOK<< like the old 2.2 BDOS as far as the disk I/O routines are
concerned?  Isn't the blocking/deblocking invisible to the user?
From what I have heard from other sources it is exactly this?  I am
being mis-lead?  It all makes very good sense to me, why would D.R.
want to go and stick a knife in there own back?

						-Eliot at Mit-DM

P.S. Please don't take offense to this letter Lauren.
 6-Dec-82 20:18:41,3643;000000000000
Date: Mon Dec  6 1982 20:18:41 PST
From: Lauren Weinstein <vortex!lauren@Lbl-Unix>
Subject: MARC, etc.
To: ELIOT at Mit-Mc
CC: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Lbl-Unix; 7 Dec 82 3:18-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:36-EST

The BDS-C that comes with MARC is a MARC-native version of 
whatever the latest CP/M version happens to be.  I guess right now
we *are* up to 1.5.  Obviously, there are differences between the 
CP/M compiler/linker and the MARC version, since the MARC filesystem
and other facilities allow much more flexibility than Leor had to
work with under CP/M.  The major point of departure between the two
versions (MARC vs. CP/M) comes in the area of libraries.  The MARC
libraries are extremely extensive, and give direct access from C
to all MARC system calls, including all the more "esoteric" ones
such as "stat", "gtty", etc.  Time conversion routines are also
included, and automatically handle niceties such as daylight
savings time, etc., as appropriate.  (MARC keeps the time internally
exactly the same way as Unix, as the number of seconds since Jan 1 1970 GMT).
I have purposely discouraged any Z-80-only libraries, since I've learned
that (somewhat to my surprise) there are still lots of people with 8080's
and 8085's.  As I said before, the benefits are not worth the hassles
of trying to maintain two sets of libraries, and I refuse to leave my
old 8080 supporters out in the cold!  Note that the stdio library under
MARC is even more extensive than under CP/M, and (as far as I can tell!)
it exactly follows K&R for all supported functions, e.g.:

#include <stdio.h>

FILE *infile;

if ((infile = fopen("/etc/passwd", "r")) == NULL)
{  fprintf(stderr, "Can't open the password file!\n");
   exit(-1);
}

does exactly what you would expect; no more of the CP/M kludges for file
I/O.  Also note that the old DIO library is no longer needed, since
MARC handles such features at the shell/exec level.  By the way,
argv[0] (command name) is available under MARC, which turns out to
be pretty handy!  (Some commands in MARC are simply links to the same
file that are called by different names -- depending on the name used, the
program acts in different manners.)

As for the CP/M emulator, I use it as little as possible, and I rarely ever
NEED to use it.  Most of my work is in BDS-C, and I long ago ported all
of my BDS-C programs over to MARC -- it's mainly a job of pulling unneeded
code and libraries OUT, since the MARC versions almost universally turn
out to be smaller and much more similiar to Unix C.  Many of the programs
I write these days are almost fully portable between MARC and Unix.
I mostly use the emulator for testing (things like MAC, WORDMASTER,
M80, L80, etc.) but I never really "use" those things -- BDS-C and
MINCE are the primary tools in my operation.  Oh yeah, I use the emulator
for playing an old Sargon chess game, and some of my dialup users play
a few old BASIC games under the emulator.

My hope is that most people will wean themselves away from CP/M programs
as rapidly as possible.  Since CP/M programs have such a limited idea
of filenames, even the most simple programs can become much more
flexible if ported over to native-MARC operation.  Still, the emulator
is there for those who need it.

--Lauren--

P.S.  In my experience, I've found that the vast majority of public
domain CP/M programs I've collected have been utilities to try correct
"defects" or fundamental limitations in CP/M.  Frankly, under MARC, 
virtually none of those sorts of programs should be needed...

--LW--
 6-Dec-82 23:18:00,540;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 01:18-EST
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@Mit-Mc>
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 1:20-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 1:26-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 1:45-EST

Now available on MIT-MC: XMODEM60.ASM and .HIS.  This replaces
XMODEM58.  The files are in:
  AR63:CPM;XMODEM 60ASM
  AR63:CPM;XMODEM 60HIS
Sorry for any inconvenience the bug in 5.8 might have caused.
Someone destroyed a register that was being used.

XMODEM 6.0 has been tested and is now in daily use on the SYSOP
RCPM as well as my own.
 6-Dec-82 23:28:00,1419;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 01:28-EST
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: TRS80 model II MODEM7
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
cc: JDOS at Mit-Ai
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 1:28-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 1:41-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 1:47-EST

This was sent out to the list some time back, but
bears repeating for those who may not have seen it.
It's easier than you think to put up MODEM2xx or MODEM7xx
on the Model II.

---

Date: 21 July 1981 2201-EDT (Tuesday)
From: Bill Sholar <William.Sholar at CMU-10A>
Sender: William.Sholar at CMU-10A
To:   INFO-CPM
Re:   TRS-80 Model II MODEM Equates & Ports

	Since the documentation on the Mod 2 TRS-80 does not bother
to discuss hardware, the following port addresses and equates for
MODEM.ASM programs might prove useful to anyone using this machine:

	MODCTLP	EQU	0F6H	;status/control port A
	MODSNDB	EQU	04H	;bit 2 indicates ready to send
	MODSNDR	EQU	04H	;  with the bit set to 1
	MODRCVB	EQU	01H	;bit 0 indicates character received
	MODRCVR	EQU	01H	;  with the bit set to 1
	MODDATP	EQU	0F4H	;data port A

	These values, plugged into MODEM.ASM, allow the TRS-80 Mod 2 to
function without any special system calls or other variations from the
existing MODEM.ASM program, assuming the port has been set up using the
SETUP (Pickles & Trout's CPM), CONFIG (Lifeboat's CPM) or SET (Cybernetics'
CPM) utility for the appropriate baud rate, etc.
 6-Dec-82 23:42:00,421;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 01:42-EST
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: XMODEM17.C
To: Info-Cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 1:42-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 1:56-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 2:16-EST

Anyone who runs an RCPM and is into BDS-C will want to look over
XMODEM17.C.  Sigi Kluger has added some nice features.  This
program is an update of XMODEM13.C.

The file is on MC as  AR63:CPM;XMODEM 17C
 7-Dec-82 00:18:48,1819;000000000000
Date: Tue Dec  7 1982 00:18:48 PST
From: Lauren Weinstein <vortex!lauren@Lbl-Unix>
Subject: CPM
To: ELIOT at Mit-Dms
CC: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Lbl-Unix; 7 Dec 82 5:15-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:48-EST

Eliot,

Certainly I don't take offense at your message, but I don't think you've
been reading my messages very carefully.

I never said that CP/M Plus wouldn't work for disk I/O!  What I said is that
any programs that try to be "smart", thinking that they know exactly
WHERE the BDOS, BIOS, disk deblocking, etc. are, will probably stop
working.  Remember that D.R. has claimed "functional compatibility" 
with 2.2, not total compatibility.  My own interpretation of "functional"
is that if you use BDOS and BIOS calls exclusively, the program will
probably work, though I have some doubts about programs that use the BIOS
to do their own "fancy" disk handling.  

Obviously, programs like DU, directory managers, and similar utilities
will also probably be vulnerable to some degree to changes in CP/M.
One other point -- if the disk blocking/deblocking is moved to the BDOS,
then obviously the portion of the BDOS that contains the blocking/deblocking
code can no longer be overlayed by most user programs.  If you have a fancy
bank-switched system you might not care, but on most systems, all of these
changes are going to cost, somewhere!

--Lauren--

P.S.  I got a call a couple of days ago from a 3.0 Beta test site who
was making a MARC query.  He basically said something like, "by the way,
they do I/O redirection all wrong..."  He didn't have time to elaborate,
but it didn't give me a very good feeling.  By the way, BYTE published
their box on MARC, but managed to print a totally erroneous phone number
for Vortex.  Sigh .

--LW--
 7-Dec-82 00:55:00,522;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 02:55-EST
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: SMODEM39.MAC available
To: Info-Cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 3:13-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:35-EST

SMODEM39.MAC is now available on MC as ar65:cpm;SMODEM 39MAC.
It includes the fixes in SMODEM38.FIX and some new routines
for resetting error flags on USARTS.

SMODEM is a customized version of MODEM7 for the D.C. Hayes
smart modem.  It has many special features specific to the
Smart Modem.
 7-Dec-82 03:00:00,2608;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 05:00-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject: portables
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 4:59-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:47-EST

    Date: 7-Dec-82 01:54:59-PST (Tue)
    From: MAILER-DAEMON at Berkeley (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
    To:   POURNE
    Re:   Unable to deliver mail

       ----- Transcript of session follows -----
    azure!tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm... Connecting to azure.uucp...
    bad system name: azure
    azure!tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm... Service unavailable
    POURNE@MIT-MC... Connecting to mit-mc.arpa...

       ----- Unsent message follows -----
    Date: 7 December 1982 04:48-EST
    From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE@MIT-MC>
    Subject:  id A11717; 4-Dec-82 05:26:42-PST (Sat)
    Message-Id: <8211070954.6705@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
    Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
    	id A06705; 7-Dec-82 01:54:59-PST (Tue)
    To: teklabs!tekcrd!tekmdp!scotth@UCB-C70
    Cc: azure!tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm@UCB-C70

    	The Osborne is the VW of the portables, and features
    good introductory documentation, a GOOD dealer net with service
    etc., and very vanilla hardware features.  Lots of bundled
    software all good.

    	The KayPro is a good machine, hardware speaking, but
    hasn't much good software with it.  The screen flickers; try it
    first,, you may no be able to stand it.  The KayPro screen is
    big enough to use alone; both Osborne and Otrona will require a
    larger monitor for on-station use.

    	The Otrona is the BMW of the portables, and I agree with
    the referenced message about it; darned good machine.  I have
    one.  The dealer and service net is growing and well done also.
    But you will need a larger screen; fortunately there is a video
    out on the back for putting it on a monitor.
    	You can use Otrona wihtout monitor, of course, and for a
    day or two is no problem; but I would hate to have to do it all
    the time.  

    I carry an Otrona to all the co,puter shows; I can have my
    choice of a lot of them.

    There is a new machine, ZORBA, out at COMDEX; looked good,
    competitively priced with Osborne and Kaypro.  Don't know about
    dealers, software,  or service.

    Hyperion is interesting; as is the new Teleray small computer
    which has a 4-line liquid crystal screen (and a video outlet;
    the 4 lines are a window into a 24 line display of course).  It
    looks good and should not be ignored.
 7-Dec-82 03:16:00,590;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 05:16-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  CP/M for TRS80 Mod I/Lobo
To: W8SDZ at Mit-Mc
cc: Info-Cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 5:21-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:49-EST

alas, the Omikron mapper is the only CP/M converter I remember
being still current, although convergent technologies and a
couple other outfits at one time made mappers for model one trs
80.  Definitely no way to use the mapper with the lobo lpx-80
which is a pity, and was also a (inexplicable) deliberate
decision on lobo's part.
 7-Dec-82 03:29:00,664;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 05:29-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  Superbrain reputation results
To: Heiby.Micro.PCO-MULTICS at BRL
cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL, Heiby at Hi-Multics
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 5:28-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:51-EST

I just got around to seeing this file.  One point more: Intertec
has a reputation for going to court and suing anyone who says
their machiens are not nice and good and true and straight, and
also getting court orders requiring magazines to accept their
adds...

I do not know if this is true, but I have heard it from sources
who ought to know.
 7-Dec-82 03:29:00,664;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 05:29-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  Superbrain reputation results
To: Heiby.Micro.PCO-MULTICS at BRL
cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL, Heiby at Hi-Multics
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 5:28-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:51-EST

I just got around to seeing this file.  One point more: Intertec
has a reputation for going to court and suing anyone who says
their machiens are not nice and good and true and straight, and
also getting court orders requiring magazines to accept their
adds...

I do not know if this is true, but I have heard it from sources
who ought to know.
 7-Dec-82 03:45:00,879;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 05:45-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  IBM PC and ITS
To: Schiffman at Sri-Kl
cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 6:10-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:27-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:55-EST

Crosstalk is VERY similar to a public domain program written by
Larry hughes; and indeed Microstuf was distributor for Hughes
until they ceased to pay him royalties claiming they had
rewritten his program and thus no longer needed to.
	Hughes has written MITE which I am using now; this is
marketed by MYCROFT Labs of Talahassee Fla. and is very easy to
use.  It uses mostly any protocols you like, has a lot of
terminal types in the init, and transfers binary files even
though the other end doesn't have the same link program that you
have.

If you are contemplating buying crosstalk, I urge you look at
MITE first.
 7-Dec-82 11:56:00,936;000000000000
Date:  7 Dec 1982 at 1056-PST
To: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
Subject: BDS-C Benchmarks
From: chesley.tsca at Sri-Tsc
Via:  Sri-Tsca; 7 Dec 82 11:35-PST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 15:01-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 15:20-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 15:23-EST

	One thing to watch out for when doing BDS-C benchmarks is the
huge difference between the code generated with no switches, and that
generated with -o and -e (and making any variables that can be globals).
(The person doing the Aztec benchmark didn't mention which way he did it.)
	I recently did a benchmark of BDS-C versus C/80, using the Byte
prime number program.  Without -o and -e, BDS-C took 41 seconds (this is
timed from after the program loads to the next "A>" prompt (i.e., after
the reboot), and thus may not compare to other numbers times from different
points).  With -o and -e, it took 17 seconds!  C/80 took (if I remember
correctly) 28 seconds.
	--Harry...
 7-Dec-82 12:00:00,609;000000000000
Date: 7 Dec 1982 12:00 EST
From: Thieret.WBST at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Re: large TPA's
In-reply-to: ELIOT's message of 6 Dec 1982 2053-EST, <[MIT-DMS].251566>
To: ELIOT at Mit-Dms (Eliot Scott Ramey)
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Parc-Maxc; 7 Dec 82 12:11-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 12:21-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 12:28-EST

Eliot,

To solve your 48k L80 problems, scrap L80 and use PLink.  PLink writes the
COM file to the disk and in addition allows the user to generate "arbitrarily
complex overlay structures". PLink is slower than L80 but if your program is 
>48 K you need it anyway.

Tracy.
 7-Dec-82 14:47:00,487;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 16:47-EST
From: Eliot Scott Ramey <ELIOT@Mit-Mc>
Subject: Re: large TPA's
To: Thieret.WBST at Parc-Maxc
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 16:46-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 17:12-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 17:40-EST

I was not actually having a problem with it as I have not yet come
up on a program that big, I was simply saying, IF.  True, PLink
can be the answer, I was just putting in my thoughts for the
larger TPA.

						-Eliot at Mit-DM
 7-Dec-82 15:09:00,437;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 17:09-EST
From: Eliot Scott Ramey <ELIOT@Mit-Mc>
Subject: MARC, etc.
To: vortex!lauren at Lbl-Unix
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 17:08-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 17:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 17:41-EST

	If most of the public domain software for CPM is to correct
CPM deficiences (sp) and MARC will not need these, then what will there
be to do on a MARC system?

						-Eliot at Mit-DM
 7-Dec-82 18:31:45,274;000000000000
Date:  7-Dec-82 18:31:45 PST (Tuesday)
From: WJThomas.es at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Please take my name off this distribution list
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Parc-Maxc; 7 Dec 82 22:25-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 22:47-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 22:50-EST

Thanks.

~ Bill
 7-Dec-82 20:40:00,378;000000000000
Date:  7 Dec 1982 2240-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: Re: large TPA's
To: ELIOT at Mit-Dms
cc: info-cpm at BRL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 7-Dec-82 0221-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 22:49-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 23:04-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 23:19-EST

have you tried Plink-II or DR's LINK ?? they're not Brain Damaged!
-------
 7-Dec-82 20:41:00,447;000000000000
Date:  7 Dec 1982 2241-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: Re: Why won't CPM Plus work?
To: ELIOT at Mit-Dms
cc: info-cpm at BRL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 7-Dec-82 0238-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 22:41-EST
Via:  Brl; 7 Dec 82 23:04-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 23:17-EST

manymanymany pograms do their own BIOS i/o.

they do not do their own blocking. the bios is SUPPOSED to do it
for them.
-------
 7-Dec-82 21:50:00,3467;000000000000
Date: 7 December 1982 23:50-EST
From: Allan D Plehn <PLEHN@Mit-Mc>
Subject: ASCII text to Std. English Braille Grade 2, American Version
To: INFO-CPM at BRL, INFO-MICRO at BRL
cc: PLOUFF at Mit-Mc, FJW at Mit-Mc, ARPEE at Mit-Mc, ELLEN at Mit-Mc, 
    HORNIG.SIPBADMIN at Mit-Multics
Via:  Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 0:11-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 0:18-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 0:21-EST









John,  an  acquaintance of mine who is blind,  has recently purchased  a 
microcomputer and a "VersaBraille" tactile braille display device.   His 
objective  is to be able to translate ASCII text files to braille  code, 
for  output  to the VersaBraille.   He has asked for help in locating  a 
translation program that runs under CP/M,  to translate CP/M ASCII  text 
files to Standard English Braille,  Grade 2,  American Version.  Any and 
all relevant information would be sincerely appreciated.


                         Background Info 

1.    Braille symbols are not in one-for-one correspondance with letters 
of  the  alphabet.   Contractions are used,  in accordance with  defined 
rules.    "tion",   for  example,   requires  only  one  braille  symbol 
(specifically, when the "tion" is the end of a word)

2.    Braille symbols are "bumps" in the form of a 2x3 matrix,  two wide 
and three high.

3.    The  VersaBraille is a portable device.   It is about 14" wide  by 
8"deep and 6" high.   It displays 20 braille symbols at a time in a  20-
cell  row  of tactile output elements.   Just above the 20-cell  braille 
display  is a long bar much like a space bar on a typewriter  (or  video 
terminal).   When the 20 braille symbols have been read,  a touch of the 
bar  reads  in  the  next  20  braille  symbols  from  a  buffer.    The 
VersaBraille  includes  a capability to enter information,  but I  don't 
recall  just how braille code is entered.   It also includes a  cassette 
drive for storing braille code files.  Manufacturer: Telesensory Systems 
Inc.;  Palo Alto, CA.  Cost: approx $7000 Ouch!  Two similar devices are 
available:  the MB2400 (24-cell) from Triformation, Inc; Stewart, FL and 
the Brailink (40-cell) from Clarke & Smith.

4.    The only translation software that John has been able to find  for 
use  on  a micro is sold by Duxbury  Systems,  Inc.;  Duxbury,MA.   This 
translation program is object code that runs under Northstar  DOS.  (For 
that reason,  in particular,  John bought a Northstar Horizon).   Price: 
(would you believe) $1000.  The company says that they may market a CP/M 
version "in about a year".

5.    There  is apparently a standard way to transmit the 6-bit  braille 
code  since  the  same  serial data that drives  the  VersaBraille  will 
operate a braille printer.   The LED120 Braille Printer (LED is  acronym 
for Line Embossing Device), for example.

6.   Pending availability of a translation program that runs under CP/M, 
it  would be very helpful to be able to convert CP/M ASCII text files to 
Northstar  Type  3  format.   There are a number of  laborious  ways  to 
accomplish this conversion but what is desired is a program that will do 
the  conversion expediently with minimum hacking knowledge  required  of 
the operator.  If such a translation program were available,  John would 
at  least be able to use the translation program that runs under N* DOS.  
Help!   (Apologies to those that receive this msg twice.)
 8-Dec-82 02:33:16,1640;000000000000
Date: 8 Dec 1982 01:33:16-PST
From: lauren at Lbl-Unix (Lauren Weinstein [Vortex])
Subject: what are computers for?
To: ELIOT at Mit-Mc
CC: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Lbl-Unix; 8 Dec 82 4:33-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 4:38-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 4:58-EST

Eliot,

You must be kidding.  What do you use ANY micro for? MARC simplyy provides 
a decent environment and a reasonable set of utilities to help enable
the user to comfortably do whatever it is they *want* to do.

Since the environment is reasonable to start with, all the P.D. programs
like DUPUSER, XDIR, D, and a multitude of others are not needed with
MARC, since those programs were efforts to raise CP/M to a more
reasonable level than where it started.  Some of the other useful
programs (like SQ, USQ, DIFF, etc.) now have MARC versions which
are generally more flexible than their CP/M counterparts, since they
can take advantage of those features already in MARC, instead of having
to fight their way around restrictions in CP/M.  Most, if not all,
of these sorts of utilities should be released with the system, assuming
I can get the proper permissions from the original authors.

I will probably not be in a position to read mail again for a couple
of days, so if you have any more questions, please don't expect a terribly
quick reply.  In any case, I might suggest that some of your questions
(particularly the last) might be better handled in private mail or with
a simple phone call.  I don't think it's fair to the other readers
for us to turn this list into a continuous MARC question and answer
session.  Thanks much.

--Lauren--
 8-Dec-82 02:36:00,489;000000000000
Date:  8 Dec 1982 0436-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@BRL>
Subject: Re: BDS-C Benchmarks
To: chesley.tsca at Sri-Tsc
cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
In-Reply-To: Your message of 8-Dec-82 0256-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 4:38-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 4:54-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 4:59-EST

another thing to consider is BDS-C with NOBOOT installed vs BDS-C without
noboot -- a friend of mine has a H-89, and it takes 10+ secs to reboot!
(that's DISguSTING!)
-------
 8-Dec-82 05:19:00,781;000000000000
Date: 8 December 1982 07:19-EST
From: Charlie Strom <CSTROM@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  Why won't CPM Plus work?
To: RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc
cc: ELIOT at Mit-Dms, INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 7:22-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 7:43-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 8:02-EST

There seems to be a bit more concern than warranted about programs
running under 2.2 being easily transportable to CP/M-Plus (aka 3.0.)
It is my understanding that as long as a program does not use BIOS
calls for disk operations, there should be no problem. A fellow at
Digital research has assured us that >95% of the programs he has tried
have given no problems. Those like DU, which uses BIOS calls rather
than BDOS calls will not work, but ths class of program is certainly
in the minority.
 8-Dec-82 08:18:00,271;000000000000
Date: 8 Dec 1982 1018-EST (Wednesday)
From: dudley at Nadc
Subject: What is Plink-II?
To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 10:52-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 11:13-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 11:26-EST

	From where is Plink-II available?		W. Dudley
-------
 8-Dec-82 09:30:00,588;000000000000
Date: 8 Dec 1982 09:30 EST
From: clark.wbst at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Re: MARC, etc.
In-reply-to: ELIOT's message of 7 December 1982 17:09-EST
To: Eliot Scott Ramey <ELIOT@Mit-Mc>
cc: vortex!lauren at Lbl-Unix, info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Parc-Maxc; 8 Dec 82 9:30-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 9:45-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 10:12-EST

	"If most of the public domain software for CPM is to correct
CPM deficiences (sp) and MARC will not need these, then what will there
be to do on a MARC system?"

Answer:

	How about the job for which you originally obtained the computer ?

--Ray
 8-Dec-82 10:49:00,976;000000000000
Date: 8 Dec 1982 10:49 EST
From: wegeng.wbst at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Re: MARC, etc.
In-reply-to: ELIOT's message of 7 December 1982 17:09-EST
To: Eliot Scott Ramey <ELIOT@Mit-Mc>
cc: vortex!lauren at Lbl-Unix, info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Parc-Maxc; 8 Dec 82 10:50-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 11:12-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 11:24-EST

Eliot,

"...then will there be to do on a MARC system?"  Well, lots.  What is there to do
on a RSX11-M system when we have RT-11?  What about RSTS?  The answer is
that different operating systems appeal to different applications and different
users.  In reality that's a big reason why both UNIX and VMS exist for VAX
computers, and will continue to exist.  Each has it's group of followers.

I personally have nothing against CP/M, but I find that the user interface (and
general philosophy) of UNIX to be more to my liking.  Therefore, I look forward
to the day when I can purchase MARC for my home system.  That's all.

==dw
 8-Dec-82 11:26:00,1939;000000000000
Date:      8 Dec 1982 10:26-PST (Wednesday)
From: hplabs!hp-pcd!jay at Ucb-C70 (Jay Phillips)
Subject:   MARC
Message-Id: <8211082321.20004@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A20002; 8-Dec-82 15:21:46-PST (Wed)
To: hplabs!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70
Via:  Mit-Ai; 8 Dec 82 18:33-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 18:48-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 18:57-EST


Hello,

	My name is Jay Phillips.  I work for Hewlett Packard's Personal
Computer Division in Corvallis, Oregon.  I've been a CP/M hacker for 
several years and a UNIX hacker more recently.  I was also responsible
for the software portion of HP's CP/M system for the HP86 and 87 computers.
I have been following with great interest the news traffic about MARC.
I was wondering if there is any way for me to get a copy of it, possibly
as a test site.  I would like to bring MARC up on our CP/M system (it is
a Z80 card which plugs into the HP86 or 87 mainframe, similar to the apple
Z80 softcard.  A large majority of our customers are technical/engineer
types and I feel that there would be a good demand for MARC running on our
machines.
	Please send me a note letting me know what you think about this.
My UUCP address is below.
	Thanks much.

		Jay Phillips

		ucbvax!hplabs!hp-pcd!jay

P.S.	If you are familiar with Berkeley UNIX you no doubt are aware of
	a massive game called Rogue.  We were intrigued by it here and 
	have been working on a version written in BDS C for CP/M.  It's
	roughly 90% done.  Unfortunately, I can't convince my boss to 
	fund it as a project so it only gets worked on in my spare time.
	I would also like to bring it up under MARC.

					Jay

P.P.S.
	If U.S. Snail or telephone is more convenient, the particulars
	follow.

	Jay Phillips
	Hewlett Packard
	Personal Computer Division
	Lab 3
	1010 N.E. Circle Blvd.
	Corvallis, OR  97330

	(503) 757-2000 x4124
 8-Dec-82 11:40:00,931;000000000000
Date: 8 Dec 1982 1040-PST
Sender: SCHNUR at Usc-Isie
Subject: graphics
From: SCHNUR at Usc-Isie
To: info-cpm at BRL
Message-ID: <[USC-ISIE] 8-Dec-82 10:40:54.SCHNUR>
Via:  Usc-Isie; 8 Dec 82 13:47-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 15:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 15:38-EST

We are looking for Tektronix compatible graphics for a Cromemco
based system to replace a Tektronix 4025 memory scope.  We found
the scope to be difficult to use because it was a bit too smart
for the Cromemco.  We need 1024 per line resolution for the
graphics and we would like the terminal for graphics to double as
the terminal.  We will be outputting hard copy to a tektronix
4662.  Our price limit is about $^$6K.  At the moment we are
considering a 4006 tektronix terminal but do not like it very
much.  The cromemco is currently operating under CDOS but we
could probably be convinced to change the system if required.
Any suggestions.
 8-Dec-82 12:16:00,2472;000000000000
Date: 8 Dec 1982 at 1116-PST (Wednesday)
From: teklabs!tektronix!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70 (UNIX-to-UNIX Copy)
Subject: Re: portables
Message-Id: <8211082246.24372@UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.256 [12/5/82])
	id AA24372; 8-Dec-82 14:46:19-PST (Wed)
Received: from UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A19115; 8-Dec-82 14:46:02-PST (Wed)
To: azure!tektroni!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm at Ucb-C70
In-Reply-To: Your news article ucbvax.269 of Tue Dec  7 23:13:11 1982
Via:  Mit-Ai; 8 Dec 82 17:48-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 17:58-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 18:15-EST

I hope this gets to Jerry Pournelle and others interested in portables--
I am a neophyte on the net, and am not sure just what's happenin' here...

Kaypro:

	The Kaypro screen flicker and terrible character set has
	a hardware solution (so I here from a friend that has one).

	The solution is a character ROM originally built for the
	BigBoard from Digital Research Computers (of Texas, not the
	folks of CP/M).  It's available from the folks at Micro-
	Cornucopia in Bend, Oregon.  $25.00 US price, or $5.00
	each if you send a fast ROM and prepaid return mailing.

	This ROM should get rid of the flicker and give a better
	character set (lower-case descenders, real semi-colon...)

	Their address:
		MICRO CORNUCOPIA
		PO Box 223
		Bend, Oregon 97709
	
	They also have a lot other neat things which go well with
	the KayPro, especially their magazine ``Micro Cornucopia--
	the Single Board Systems Journal'', which means Xerox 820, too.

Otrona:

	For a lot of people (I know at least five!) the Otrona screen
	is ``just right.''  The normal distance one sits from the screen
	makes the characters just a shade larger than what you see when
	reading the newspaper at normal distance.  For me, the only time
	I'll need a larger monitor is for demonstrations, and working with
	more than one other person.  The reason for the success of Otrona's
	screen is its high resolution.  The characters are clear (unlike
	some other 5" screens).  If the Otrona is called a
	``portable'', then anything else (I have seen) is merely
	``movable.''

	Does anyone else have a problem with the clips on the south
	corners of the keyboard (used to hold the keyboard in place
	when closed) ?  They dig into the fleshy parts below by little
	fingers when I place my hands on the keyboard in my usual way.
 8-Dec-82 15:15:00,460;000000000000
Date:  8 Dec 1982 1715-EST
From: Robert C Berwick <BERWICK.MIT-OZ@BRL>
Subject: Modem program for IBM PC
To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 17:18-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 17:39-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 17:42-EST

Does anyone have any information about
a program to transfer files from TOPS-20
to an IBM PC?  (Similar to LMODEM, I
suppose.)
Please send info to me directly, as
I am not on the INFO-CPM mailing list.
Thanks.
-------
 8-Dec-82 16:52:26,641;000000000000
Date: 8-Dec-82 15:52:26-PST (Wed)
From: menlo70!sytek!msm at Ucb-C70
Subject: ZCPR?
Message-Id: <8211082352.20598@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A20593; 8-Dec-82 15:52:28-PST (Wed)
To: menlo70!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70
Via:  Mit-Ai; 8 Dec 82 19:04-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 19:17-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 19:21-EST

In the recent messages discussing CPM 3.0, something called ZCPR was mentioned.
Could someone please elaborate on what it is and how to get it.

Thank You.

					Michael S. Maiten
					Silicon Gulch, California
					<...!{ucbvax!menlo70,decvax}!sytek!msm>
 8-Dec-82 17:04:00,520;000000000000
Date:  8 Dec 1982 1904-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: Re: what are computers for?
To: lauren at Lbl-Unix
cc: ELIOT at Mit-Mc, INFO-CPM at BRL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 8-Dec-82 0659-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 19:34-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 19:50-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 19:53-EST

why to play games, of course!

is there anybody else out there doing SERIOUS programming
for the osborne (NO basic or (ugh!) pascal)? would like
to get in touch!
					-andy
-------
 8-Dec-82 17:38:08,881;000000000000
Date:  8 Dec 1982 17:38:08 CST (Wednesday)
From: Mike Meyer <mwm@Okc-Unix>
Subject: Multitasking CP/M, anyone?
To: info-cpm at BRL
Cc: mwm at Okc-Unix
Via:  Okc-Unix; 8 Dec 82 18:59-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 19:17-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 19:19-EST

A friend of mine asked me to  post the following to the net:

	Could you put out a polite enquiry if anyone would be interrested in a sourced
	multitasking Z80 operating system with CP/M compatibily for nominal hassle fee?
	It is NOT available yet (it boots but need lots of work) I was just wondering
	how much demand and or help was available.
	

If memory serves me correctly, this package (called MP/X) runs under either
the standard CP/M BIOS or the BDOS. It comes with a shell, stty, etc. It looks
(a little) like MP/M 1 in the way it handles processes. Putting a copy
on MC is a possibility.

	<mike
 8-Dec-82 18:21:00,791;000000000000
Date:  8 Dec 1982 2021-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@BRL>
Subject: Re: What is Plink-II?
To: dudley at Nadc
cc: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
In-Reply-To: Your message of 8-Dec-82 1909-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 20:25-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 20:50-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 21:07-EST

Plink-II is Pheonix (sp) Software Associate's linker that
is compatible with microsoft's .REL file format.

it not only links programs larger than the memory of the computer,
it will also do overlays (necessary for BIG programs).

it's (or was, i think) available from lifeboat.

it is a *must* when devo'ing (are we not men?) large
programs - l80 really bytes the bag at this (%out of memory
(or some such nonsense)).
					Sharon Enjoy (or visa versa)
					-andy
-------
 8-Dec-82 18:32:00,367;000000000000
Date: 8 December 1982 20:32-EST
From: Eliot Scott Ramey <ELIOT@Mit-Mc>
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 20:31-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 20:50-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 21:08-EST

    Date: 8 December 1982 19:34-EST
    From: Michael C. Adler <MADLER at MIT-ML>

    Trouble is, you are right!  What would I do if CP/M were perfect?
    -Michael
 8-Dec-82 19:13:00,10173;000000000000
Date: 8 December 1982 21:13-EST
From: Eric O Stork <STORK@Mit-Mc>
To: STORK at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 21:12-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 21:19-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 21:31-EST

Subject:  Comments on 'Portable' Micros.

On December 4, I asked CPM-INFO and CPM-MICRO readers for comment
on  what 'portable' micro to get for my college-bound son who has
used my system for his written work for over two years now.

I got a number of responses to my question.  I suspect that  many
people  may  be interested in this informal survey of user views,
so have cleaned up (i.e., removed extraneous  routing  data,  and
corrected  typos)  the  responses.   I  have  made no substantive
changes whatsoever to the responses -- just organized them a  bit
to make them easier to read.

If  there  are  additional views -- especially views or ideas not
expressed below -- send them to me.  If I get enough to  make  it
worthwhile, I'll update and resubmit to the network.

Eric Stork   STORK at MIT-MC    Dec 8, 1982


                    COMMENTS ON PORTABLE MICROS

From: Jeffrey at OFFICE

Get  one which is as compatible as possible with the IBM PC which
will soon take over the micro world like the 370 has  taken  over
mainframes.   Look  at the COMPAQ.  Its pretty compatible but you
can't plug all the PC option board from third party vendors  into
COMPAQ.   The CORONA is more compatible but I don't know anything
about its quality.  Jeffrey Stone Menlo Park, CA
 ^_


From: mknoxUTEXAS-11

The OSBORNE has a lot of users, many of whom are no  doubt  going
to  respond  to  your query.  The factory responsiveness has been
excellent, possibly because Osborne himself is somewhat conscious
of his reputation.  At $1795 there is  no  question  that  it  is
worth the money.  I recently had a chance to play with an ATTACHE
($3995.) and liked it.  At more than twice the price it does (and
better)  offer a better, more expandable system.  Jerry Pournelle
(Pourne at MIT-MC) did a brief review in the latest BYTE  on  the
ATTACHE, and he also has an OSBORNE.  Screen is very crisp, and a
lot  more  flexible  with raster graphics dot addressable, but it
sure is small!  For serious work I think you are going to need  a
bigger  monitor for whichever you get (both have them available).
 ^_


From: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 (David Allen Gewirtz)

New machines  were  just  released  at  Comdex  this  past  week.
Unfortunately,  my literature hasn't shown up yet, so I will work
from memory.
     There were a number of new CP/M  portables  announced,  most
notably  the Jonos Computer out of Anaheim, CA using the new Sony
floppies.  Cute little toy, uses STD bus, so it can  be  diddled.
On the 8088 side, there were a few released, most notably the DOT
from  Computer  Devices  of  Burlington  MA,  the  Chameleon from
someplace, and the Compac, also from someplace, but my  guess  as
the winner.
     The  DOT:  an 8088 machine using Sony 3" floppies.  Not bad.
     The Chameleon.  "IBM PC Compatible" selling  for  $1995  and
using  an  8088  and  Z80..best price machine, but company seemed
underfunded.  Wouldn't take a chance.
     The Compac - funded  by  Sevin  Rosen  and  designed  to  be
hardware  and  software  compatible  with the IBM PC.  This means
that you can go out and buy the thing and with add on  cards  use
any  processor  from  a  Z80 - 8088 - 8086 - 286 - 68000 and OS's
from CP/M - PC-DOS - CP/M-86 - Concurrent CP/M
      XENIX: Since its heavily funded and a rather  nice  machine
and  portable it would be the best bet.  Look to magazine adds or
ask you local computer stores.  It  should  be  getting  lots  of
press.  I would probably check it out over the Kaypro.  Don't buy
an Osborne.  David
 ^_


From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ at MIT-MC>

When you told him not to buy an Osborne, did you consider the new
one  which  is supposed to have double-density disks and a larger
screen?  That might be worth a few comments to the Info-Cpm list,
if you're familiar with it.  I haven't  seen  it  myself  -  only
heard about it via messages on CompuServe CP-MIG.
 ^_


From: Stephen King <G.KING at SU-SCORE>

Here's  some trivial input.  I've had the Osborne demonstrated to
me and have worked the KayPro for the  past  two  days...   so  I
can't speak from much experience on those.
     I  do  own a Heath H8 and Apple ][+, had an Atari 400 and am
systems manager for several large-scale  systems  and  micros  at
work.   The  screen on the Osborne is too small.  The KP keyboard
has a nice  feel  and  the  screen  size  is  1002  better.   The
characters are larger and eye fatigue should be less.  The KP was
about  $100  cheaper.  Seems the Osborne was a little heavier and
was not constructed as durable as the KP.   I  saw  that  the  KP
scratched  a little on the keyboard, but that came about from the
owner sitting the KP ON the keyboard  to  angle  the  CRT  for  a
better view.  I thought the drives were a little noisy on the KP,
don't  remember the Osborne; but then again...  I think the Apple
drives are noisy.  The Heath drives are very quiet.  I liked  the
removable  keyboard  on  the KP.  All in all, I would suggest the
KP!  Hope this helps...  Steve King
 ^_


From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY at MIT-OZ>

The osborne is great and wonderful.  My serial number is  825(!).
Its  had  heavy  use  for  over  a  year,  and it's still hanging
together.  you might wanna checkout the new  morrow  or  godbout.
the  Kaypro (aka the K-mart computer) really isn't too good.  The
disks are slow and you don't get as much doc as with the osborne.
also, the O1 runs at 4mHz  (the  kmart  runs  at  2.25  for  some
strange reason).  If you have ANY questions about the O1
 ^_


From: Jerry E.  Pournelle <POURNEMIT-MC>

    The  Osborne  is  the  VW of the portables, and features good
introductory documentation, a GOOD dealer net with service  etc.,
and very vanilla hardware features.  Lots of bundled software all
good.

    The  KayPro  is a good machine, hardware speaking, but hasn't
much good software with it.  The screen flickers; try  it  first,
you  may no be able to stand it.  The KayPro screen is big enough
to use alone; both Osborne  and  Otrona  will  require  a  larger
monitor for on-station use.

    The  Otrona is the BMW of the portables, and I agree with the
referenced message about it; darned good machine.   I  have  one.
The  dealer  and  service net is growing and well done also.  But
you will need a larger screen; fortunately there is a  video  out
on the back for putting it on a monitor.

    You  can use Otrona without monitor, of course, and for a day
or two is no problem; but I would hate to have to do it  all  the
time.  I carry an Otrona to all the computer shows; I can have my
choice  of  a lot of them.  There is a new machine, ZORBA, out at
COMDEX;  looked  good,  competitively  priced  with  Osborne  and
Kaypro.  Don't know about dealers, software,  or service.

    Hyperion is interesting; as is the new Teleray small computer
which has a 4-line liquid crystal screen (and a video outlet; the
4 lines are a window into a 24 line display of course).  It looks
good and should not be ignored.

Osborne  80  cols  available  in  January, retrofit is about $100
install and $75  for mod,  I  believe;  but  after  Jan  it  will
come with it, I think.  Just now you can get dBase-II with an old
Osborne   single-density disk system, plus a coupon to get double
density mod, plus if you get  double   density   and   80   cols 
installed   at   same  time the installation fee is once only (ie
$100 for both not  $100  each).

        As  I  said earlier, Osborne has good service.  Otrona is
groovy machine but expensive.  I like them both.  Kaypro you want
to look at.  It's nice but there are funny things.


 ^_
  From: teklabs!tekcrd!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70
 [or        tektronix!tekmdp!scotth at UCB-C70     (?)]

Regarding portables for  sons-off-to-college:  I  have  used  the
Kaypro-II,  thought it an adequate solution.  The Osborne doesn't
please me very much, but I haven't seen it outside the  showroom.
I  do  like the Kaypro for what it offers, which is a simple CP/M
system, without a whole lot of extra features.  If 64K is  enough
main  store, and 200K on each of two drives is enough mass store,
then it ought to be adequate for a freshman  or  sophomore.   The
best portable (truly defining the term "portable"; the Kaypro and
Osborne   are   merely  "moveable")  system,  at  least  from  my
engineering standpoint, is the OTRONA Attache.   The  Attache  is
also  a  64K CP/M system, 360K per shock-mounted disk drive.  But
it has a LOT of big plusses, which can't all be listed here,  but
include:
        Real time clock
        Bus extender (S-100, GPIB, STD)
        DMA F interrupt driven
        Graphics (damn good, too)
        comes  with Wordstar (customized to keyboard), MBASIC(for
what
        it's worth), software to utilize the clock, graphics
        tools, a RPN calculator, nice version of CP/M...

The cost is a little higher ($3995), but  it's  engineering  cost
well  spent.   The  system  is  professional,  hard  disk, 16-bit
processor are  planned  extensions,  battery-pack  is  available,
12-volt  for use in campers etc, high-resolution screen, the list
is long.  The machine is an 8-bitter that will carry the  user  a
long  way  into  the  future  (specifically  through  college and
graduate school and them some).  I am impressed with the  machine
and plan to acquire one.  You may wish to contact OTRONA at
        OTRONA Corporation
        4755 Walnut Street
        Boulder, Colorado 80301(303) 444-8100 My name is
                Scott Herzinger
                Software Engineering
                Microcomputer Development Products
                Tektronix, Inc
                PO Box 500, MS 92/525
                Beaverton, Oregon


                             ####
 8-Dec-82 20:33:00,344;000000000000
Date: 8 December 1982 22:33-EST
From: Eliot Scott Ramey <ELIOT@Mit-Mc>
Subject: Re:what are computers for?
To: lauren.LBL-CSAM at BRL
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 22:48-EST
Via:  Brl; 8 Dec 82 23:02-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 23:19-EST

When I made that statement, I was just kidding, HONEST!

						-Eliot at Mit-DM
 8-Dec-82 21:52:00,707;000000000000
Date: 8 December 1982 23:52-EST
From: Paul L Kelley <PLK@Mit-Mc>
Subject: Fix file for MODEM794
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
cc: W8SDZ at Mit-Mc, PLOUFF at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 23:52-EST
Via:  Brl; 9 Dec 82 0:08-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 0:24-EST


	AR61:CPM;MFIX 794DIF is a very short fix file for
AR61:CPM;MODEM 794ASM.  It fixes MODEM794 so that there is an initial
NAK (or CRC) sent in the receive mode before waiting for the first
SOH. The lack of this initial NAK (or CRC) caused an unnecessary
timeout in the first sector transfer.  This was an error I introduced
in changing the program so that the receive mode sends more than one
CRC when setting up the first sector transfer.
 9-Dec-82 01:01:00,956;000000000000
Date: 9 December 1982 03:01-EST
From: Keith Petersen <ucbvax!W8SDZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  ZCPR?
Message-Id: <8211090803.540@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A00520; 9-Dec-82 00:03:47-PST (Thu)
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A09836; 10-Dec-82 09:23:59-PST (Fri)
To: menlo70!sytek!msm at Ucb-C70
Cc: menlo70!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70
Via:  Mit-Ai; 10 Dec 82 12:24-EST
Via:  Brl; 10 Dec 82 12:42-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 13:05-EST

ZCPR means "Z80 CCP Replacement".  It offers many new features not in
the "stock" DR CCP, takes same 2k space, is fully documented with
instructions on how to install it (needs an experienced
machine-language programmer to do it, however).  Those who've used it
like it so much they don't use their distribution CCP anymore.

ZCPR files are available on almost any "Remote CP/M" system via modem.
See any RCPMLIST for phone numbers.
 9-Dec-82 02:49:33,1638;000000000000
Date:     9 Dec 82 02:49:33 EST  (Thu)
From:     Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay>
Subject:  Re:  8080 to 8086 translation
To:       Tony <Li@Rutgers>
Cc:       info-cpm at BRL
Via:  UCF-CS; 9 Dec 82 4:29-EST
Via:  Udel-Relay; 9 Dec 82 15:46-EST
Via:  Brl; 9 Dec 82 16:08-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 16:20-EST

Further to my complaint about XLT86, I finally got around to reading the
manual from DRI.  (This is always the final step around here).  The 
memory overflow problem is indeed documented, to wit:

(page 27)
4.3 Memory Overflow

	"The XLT86 program occupies approximately 30K bytes of main 
memory.  The remainder of memory, up to the base of CP/M, stores the 
program graph that represents the 8086 program being translated [sic].
The error message:

	  ERROR  (7)  "Free Space Exhausted"

is issued if the program graph exceeds available memory.  A 64K CP/M 
system allows translation of 8080 programs of up to approximately 6K. [!!!!]

	The above error causes XLT86 to terminate.  To continue, you
must divide your source program into smaller modules and retry the
translation."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, if DRI is trying to impose modular programming practices upon us,
that is just about as bad as Godbout "requiring" CP/M purchasers to 
purchase a Sorcim assembler to maintain their BIOS.  While DRI used
some nice dataflow analysis in XLT86, that is of little consequence 
when most of my programs are larger than "6k" and, therefore, can't
be translated.  I feel like I got "soaked" for $150 at this point.
					Ben
 9-Dec-82 03:14:00,1476;000000000000
Date: 9 December 1982 05:14-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject: sorry to do this
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 5:13-EST
Via:  Brl; 9 Dec 82 5:19-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 5:29-EST

Sorry to put this to whole list, but I do not know how else to
reply to these two...

    Date: 8-Dec-82 22:36:53-PST (Wed)
    From: MAILER-DAEMON at Berkeley (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
    To:   POURNE
    Re:   Unable to deliver mail

       ----- Transcript of session follows -----
    azure!tektroni!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm... Connecting to azure.uucp...
    bad system name: azure
    azure!tektroni!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm... Service unavailable
    POURNE@MIT-MC... Connecting to mit-mc.arpa...

       ----- Unsent message follows -----
    Date: 9 December 1982 01:33-EST
    From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE@MIT-MC>
    Subject:  portables
    Message-Id: <8211090636.28824@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
    Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
    	id A28824; 8-Dec-82 22:36:53-PST (Wed)
    To: teklabs!tektronix!tekmdp!scotth@UCB-C70
    Cc: azure!tektroni!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm@UCB-C70

    	Thanks for informatiojjn.
    Otrona has a NEW screen system (they came by and installed one
    in mine today) that is REALLY nice.... with that I agree you
    would not need a larger monitor.

    Kaypro does not come with good software but is good machine
    othereise.

    JEP
 9-Dec-82 04:52:00,228;000000000000
Date: 9 December 1982 06:52-EST
From: Devon S McCullough <DEVON@Mit-Mc>
To: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 7:17-EST
Via:  Brl; 9 Dec 82 7:31-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 7:51-EST

please flush me from the list
 9-Dec-82 06:32:31,2309;000000000000
Date:     9 Dec 82 8:32:31-EST (Thu)
From: Rick Conn <ucbvax!rconn@BRL>
Subject:  Re:  ZCPR?
Message-Id: <8211091422.7913@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A07911; 9-Dec-82 06:22:13-PST (Thu)
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A09846; 10-Dec-82 09:24:16-PST (Fri)
To: menlo70!sytek!msm at Ucb-C70
Cc: menlo70!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70, rconn at BRL
Via:  Mit-Ai; 10 Dec 82 12:26-EST
Via:  Brl; 10 Dec 82 12:42-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 13:08-EST

        ZCPR, which stands for Z80 Command Processor Replacement,
is a replacement for the CP/M 2.2 CCP.  It gives the user several
advantages over the conventional CP/M 2.2 CCP, which include:

                o command-search hierarchy, where if the desired
                        COM file is not found in the current
                        disk/user, ZCPR will automatically search
                        for it in current disk/user 0 and then A0:
                        before giving up

                o enhancements on several of the CCP-resident commands:
                        SAVE's argument may be in Hex or Decimal
                        TYPE can page or not page as desired
                        LIST is like a non-paging TYPE to the printer
                        DIR can display SYS files or both SYS and DIR
                        GO reexecutes the last command loaded
                        GET manually loads a file into memory at a
                                location specified by the user
                        DFU allows the search to go to some other
                                user than 0

                o the ZCPR prompt displays the disk and user number

        There are other features as well, but  I  won't  go  into
them now.  ZCPR is in the public domain (=FREE), and is available
on several Remote CP/M systems, on MIT-MC in  the  CPM  archives,
and  in  the SIG/M User's Group (which will cost about $5 for the
disk and handling) in Vol 77.

        ZCPR2, which I consider to be a greatly  enhanced  imple-
mentation  of the ZCPR concept, will be released shortly.  It in-
cludes further extensions, and a message will come out describing
it when it is ready.

                Rick
 9-Dec-82 07:00:00,914;000000000000
Date:  9 Dec 1982 0900-EST
From: WOHL at Cmu-Cs-C
Subject: new cpmutl, ver 7,utility to read/write cpm floppy on vax
To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc, info-micro at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 9:02-EST
Via:  Brl; 9 Dec 82 9:23-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 9:49-EST

CPMUTL is a program you run under vax unix on a vax-780.  It uses the floppy
drive (that every 780 has) to read and write cpm format floppies.  If someone
has tried to run CPMUTL under VMS please drop me a note saying what the
problems if any where encountered.

There is a new release of cpmutl that has a bug mz@cmu-cs-vlsi found fixed.
When files where read from the floppy the unix file wasn't closed so a
multiple get with more than 16 files failed.  It is available from:
 MIT-MC      CPM;AR43:CPMUTL 7C
 CMU-CS-C    PS:<WOHL.BAR>CPMUTL.C.7
 CMU-CS-VLSI (a uucp and ip-tcp vax at CMU) /usr/avw/cpmutl/cpmutl7.c

	Aaron

-------
 9-Dec-82 08:24:08,333;000000000000
Date:  9-Dec-82  8:24:08 PST (Thursday)
From: WJThomas.es at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Please take me off this distribution list.
To: info-cpm at BRL
cc: WJThomas at Parc-Maxc
Via:  Parc-Maxc; 9 Dec 82 12:17-EST
Via:  Brl; 9 Dec 82 12:40-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 12:53-EST

Please take me off this distribution list.

~ Bill
 9-Dec-82 10:19:00,511;000000000000
Date: 9 December 1982 12:19-EST
From: Robert L Plouffe <PLOUFF@Mit-Ai>
Subject: MODEM7 BUG FIX
To: INFO-CPM at BRL, INFO-MICRO at BRL
cc: PLK at Mit-Mc, W8SDZ at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Ai; 9 Dec 82 12:18-EST
Via:  Brl; 9 Dec 82 12:41-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 12:55-EST

The file MDM795 794DIF in AR61:CPM; at MIT-MC
provides the Paul Kelley fix for the initial timeout
problem AND adds an enhancement by Ken Stritzel that
allows user area as well as logged drive to be changed
from the command line.
 9-Dec-82 10:45:00,366;000000000000
Date: 9 Dec 1982 1245-EST (Thursday)
From: dudley at Nadc
Subject: Mike Meyer/Multitasking CP/M
To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 12:47-EST
Via:  Brl; 9 Dec 82 13:21-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 13:31-EST

	My mail program does not know of the address 'mwm@Okc-Unix'.
Does anyone know the trick for talking to this guy?  Thanks   --dud
-------
 9-Dec-82 12:41:00,590;000000000000
Date: Thursday,  9 Dec 1982 11:41-PST
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
Cc: bridger at Rand-Unix
Subj: CPM 3.0 timestamp
From: bridger at Rand-Unix
Via:  Rand-Unix; 9 Dec 82 16:05-EST
Via:  Brl; 9 Dec 82 16:23-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 16:34-EST

	Can someone supply the file specifications and protocol for
CPM 3.0's date and timestamp feature?  We are working on a design for
automatic stamping of files under CPM 2.2;  files will be stamped with
create, last access and last modified date/time.  It may be desirable to
aim for as much compatibility with 3.0 as possible.
				bridger.
 9-Dec-82 14:25:29,564;000000000000
Date: Thu Dec  9 13:25:29 1982
From: decvax!harpo!seismo!presby!aron at Ucb-C70
Subject: Marc
Message-Id: <8211101146.4657@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A04655; 10-Dec-82 03:46:38-PST (Fri)
To: seismo!harpo!decvax!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70
Via:  Mit-Ai; 10 Dec 82 6:57-EST
Via:  Brl; 10 Dec 82 7:18-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 7:41-EST

Marc sounds wonderful to me.  Maybe we should leave lauren alone so he
can bring it to market quicker!

					aron shtull-trauring
					seismo!harpo!presby!aron
 9-Dec-82 17:59:00,675;000000000000
Date:  9 Dec 1982 1959-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: Re: portables
To: teklabs!tektronix!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70
cc: info-cpm at BRL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 9-Dec-82 0126-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 20:50-EST
Via:  Brl; 9 Dec 82 21:02-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 21:19-EST

by `other' 5" screens, i assume you mean the osborne...
the osborne is MORE readable than the otrona, 'cause the
characters are bigger, and therefore clearer.

yes, both the little keyboard and the clips on it give me pains
within 5 mins of use oof the little bugger. otherwise,
it's a VERY good machine (GREAT graphics).
					-andy
-------
 9-Dec-82 18:26:07,579;000000000000
Date: Thu Dec  9 17:26:07 1982
From: 
      teklabs!ogcvax!hp-pcd!hplabs!hpda!dah at Ucb-C70 (UNIX-to-UNIX Copy)
Subject: bds/cpm rogue
Message-Id: <8211100618.227@UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.256 [12/5/82])
	id AA00227; 9-Dec-82 22:18:48-PST (Thu)
Received: from UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A08863; 10-Dec-82 08:23:21-PST (Fri)
To: hplabs!hp-pcd!ogcvax!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm at Ucb-C70
Via:  Mit-Ai; 10 Dec 82 11:23-EST
Via:  Brl; 10 Dec 82 11:43-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 11:58-EST
 9-Dec-82 19:21:00,1266;000000000000
Date: 9 December 1982 21:21-EST
From: Frank J Wancho <FJW@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  [MADLER: Am I doing something wrong in the address? Thanks!]
To: INFO-CPM at BRL, INFO-MICRO at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 21:20-EST
Via:  Brl; 9 Dec 82 21:36-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 21:45-EST

For those of you who send mail to either list and get rejection
notices:
--------------------

To:   Michael C Adler <MADLER at Mit-Ml>
Re:   Am I doing something wrong in the address? Thanks!

No, you aren't doing anything wrong.  There are occassional glitches
in the variety of machines that pass INFO-CPM (and INFO-MICRO) mail.
There usually isn't much we can do about it unless it persists for
about a week.  Then we remove the offending address and wait until
someone complains about not getting the mail (and perhaps offers an
explanation of what was happening during the glitch period).  That's
about all that can be done.  Most of the time the problems simply
go away all by themselves...

--------------------

Now, what would *really* be nice is if *someone* fixed things so that
these rejection notices went to the maintainer of the particular
mailing list - maybe after the mad rush to meet the 1 Jan 83 cutover
to TCP/IP settles down...

--Frank
10-Dec-82 03:54:17,1308;000000000000
Date: 10-Dec-82 02:54:17-PST (Fri)
From: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 (David Allen Gewirtz)
Subject: Floppy Disk Warning!!!
Message-Id: <8211101054.17653@UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.224 [10/16/82])
	id A17649; 10-Dec-82 02:54:20-PST (Fri)
Received: from UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A03289; 10-Dec-82 02:52:32-PST (Fri)
To: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL
Via:  Ucb-C70; 10 Dec 82 5:55-EST
Via:  Brl; 10 Dec 82 6:06-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 6:19-EST


This comes third hand from a materials scientist in Silicon Valley
who is working on hard disk recording methods.

I am not sure of the actual techical accuracy, but the gist is

	AVOID ELEPHANT MEMORY DISKS - THEY WILL SCREW UP
		YOUR HEADS.

The disks have a large amount of what I think he called Alumina.  Although
the disks do not seem to have many errors, they have an interesting side
effect.  The alumina(?) is used to reduce cost and increase disk
reliability, but too much will erode the heads of disk drives.
The Elephant disks have too much.

I am trying to get a more specific and accurate description of
the problem and will post it as soon as I decipher it.

In the intevening weeks, simply beware of Elephehant memory disks.

David
10-Dec-82 08:39:54,339;000000000000
Date: 10-Dec-82  8:39:54 PST (Friday)
From: WJThomas.es at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Please take my name off this distribution list
To: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 10 Dec 82 14:34-EST
Via:  Brl; 10 Dec 82 14:48-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 14:57-EST

Please take my name off this distribution list.

Thanks,

Bill <WJThomas.es>
10-Dec-82 08:58:00,675;000000000000
Date:  10 December 1982 08:58 cst
From:  Heiby.APSE at Hi-Multics
Reply-To:  heiby at Hi-Multics
To:  bridger at Rand-Unix
cc:  info-cpm at BRL, Heiby.APSE at Hi-Multics
In-Reply-To:  Msg of 12/10/82 05:30 from bridger
Via:  Hi-Multics; 10 Dec 82 10:01-EST
Via:  Brl; 10 Dec 82 10:18-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 10:37-EST

When Gary Kildall (Pres DRI) spoke at my CP/M user group meeting in
Mpls, he said that the disk structure was different between 2.2 and
Plus.  He said that Plus would be able to run in an emulation mode for
2.2 as far as the directory, etc. format was concerned.  I think I'd
ignore CP/M Plus disk compatability for a 2.2 system.  Ron.
10-Dec-82 12:29:58,356;000000000000
Date:     10 Dec 82 14:29:58-EST (Fri)
From:     Earl Weaver (VLD/VMB) <earl@BRL>
To:       info-cpm at BRL
cc:       karen at BRL
Subject:  Dynalogic
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 15:10-EST
Via:  Brl; 10 Dec 82 15:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 15:41-EST

Does anybody know anything about this company?

Please send replies to karen@brl.  Thanks.
10-Dec-82 14:46:33,2379;000000000000
Date:     10 Dec 82 16:46:33-EST (Fri)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL
Subject:  JRT Pascal released in SIG/M
Via:  Brl; 10 Dec 82 16:53-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 16:58-EST

        I thought you would like to know.  From this month's (DEC
82)  issue  of the "Amateur Computer Group of New Jersey News" in
the SIG/M Report column:

        "JRT PASCAL came first with Ellis and  others  following.
The Pascal Z group took note of the non-commercial release provi-
sions of the JRT PASCAL and  released  it  as  their  volume  18.
SIG/M  is now releasing it as volume 82.  We read one rave review
and one that said it wasn't worth the new price.  We know  of  at
least  one  bug - try multiplying by 0, but we think for those of
you interested in trying a little Pascal, it is worth getting our
volume 82."

        Hence, JRT PASCAL looks like it is *FREE* to me.  If  you
have  a  computer  club which is already getting the SIG/M disks,
you can get it from them, or the SIG/M copying charge is  $5/disk
+  $1/order  (I  think  I misquoted $4/disk earlier).  In further
confirmation, the following are the files on volume 82 of SIG/M:

ARCTAN.INT      ARCTAN.PAS      CONVERTM.INT    COS.INT         COS.PAS
CUSTOMIZ.INT    DEBUG.INT       ERASE.INT       EXEC.COM        EXP.INT
EXP.PAS         JGRAF.INT       JGRAF.PAS       JRTASM.INT      JRTPAS2.COM
JSTAT.INT       JSTAT.PAS       LETTERS.INT     LINKER.INT      LN.INT
LN.PAS          PASCAL.LIB      PASCAL0.INT     PASCAL1.INT     PASCAL2.INT
PASCAL3.INT     PASCAL4.INT     RENAME.INT      RESETBIT.ASM    SETBIT.ASM
SIN.INT         SIN.PAS         SQRT.INT        SQRT.PAS        TESTBIT.ASM


        For those who already have purchased JRT PASCAL, is  this
a complete list of the files?

        Also, for those interested, ZCPR 1.0 and 1.6 are now  be-
ing  distributed on SIG/M disk 77.  I also gave SIG/M ALL of SYS-
LIB, and it will take up three SIG/M disks all by  itself.   Com-
plete  source to everything was included, as well as the huge do-
cumentation files and all the HLP files.  I don't remember  if  I
gave them the new User's Guide, but if I didn't, it will come out
later.  I don't yet know which SIG/M volumes SYSLIB will  be  in,
but I'll drop you a message when I find out.

                Rick
10-Dec-82 16:20:00,461;000000000000
Date: 10 Dec 1982 1520-PST
From: SHOSTAK at Sri-Csl
Subject: Disk Drives for IBM PC
To: info-cpm at BRL
cc: shostak at Sri-Csl
Via:  Sri-Csl; 10 Dec 82 18:22-EST
Via:  Brl; 10 Dec 82 18:54-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 19:12-EST

A sales person for IBM products claimed that it is unsafe to install
non-IBM-furnished Tandon 5 1/4 inch floppies in IBM PC's because 
modifications are needed.  Any truth to this?
       --Rob Shostak@sri-csl
-------
10-Dec-82 17:01:00,334;000000000000
Date: 10 Dec 1982 17:01 PST
From: DWONG.ES at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Please take me off this distribution list
To: info-cpm at BRL
cc: DWONG.es at Parc-Maxc
Via:  Parc-Maxc; 10 Dec 82 20:06-EST
Via:  Brl; 10 Dec 82 20:18-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 20:46-EST

Please take me off this distribution list

Thanks

Dennis Wong
10-Dec-82 22:10:00,718;000000000000
Date: Saturday, 11 December 1982  00:10-EST
Sender: CAL.MIT-OZ at BRL
From: Cliff Lasser <CAL@Mit-Mc>
To:   Lauren at Ucla-Security
cc:   Rizzi at Usc-Isib, INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 2:17-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 2:51-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 2:58-EST

  There is a lack of a feature in CPM that I hope exists in MARC: It is
impossible to return to the disk operating system any part of a file that
is no longer being used.  For example, one can't cause a file to be
shortened by returning all allocated disk blocks after a particular point
in the file.  Does MARC have a system call to do this?

  If anyone knows an easy fix for this in CPM, please let me in on it.

Thanx -Cliff
11-Dec-82 00:53:00,524;000000000000
Date: 11 December 1982 02:53-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  Floppy Disk Warning!!!
To: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70
cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 2:51-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 3:09-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 3:14-EST

My engineers tell me much the same thing, except that for Atari
drives Elephant disks are better than Dysans because with Atari
the thicker the medium the better; or so say they for reasons
that I did not bother to try to understand.

jep
11-Dec-82 00:58:00,605;000000000000
Date: 11 December 1982 02:58-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  portables
To: RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc
cc: info-cpm at BRL, teklabs!tektronix!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70
Via:  Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 2:55-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 3:09-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 3:19-EST

cannot agree that  Osborne is more readable than Otrona.  I have
both.  Otrona, especially with the new screen (all the ones sold
now will have it) is VERY readable, so much so that my assistant
editor has decided that he doesn't want me to hook up the
monitor because the Otrona screen is good enough.
11-Dec-82 01:00:00,387;000000000000
Date: 11 December 1982 03:00-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  8080 to 8086 translation
To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay
cc: info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers
Via:  Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 3:04-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 3:20-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 3:31-EST

Was ist mit the sorcim act for teh Godbout BIOS?  We assemble
ours with RMAC and it works very well.
11-Dec-82 06:36:00,1198;000000000000
Date: 11 December 1982 08:36-EST
From: Charlie Strom <CSTROM@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  Floppy Disk Warning!!!
To: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70
cc: Info-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 8:49-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 8:55-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 9:03-EST

Alumina is aluminum oxide and is used as an industrial abrasive.
Floppy disks would use such a material to keep the heads clean I would
assume, although too much of it is certainly akin to inserting a
floppy sandpaper sheet rather than a diskette! It would be most
interesting to learn which vendor uses what it his medium formulation;
I am frankly weary of third-hand reports and horror stories re
diskettes - if I listened to all of them, there would certainly be no
diskette that I could use with complete confidence!
My philosophy to a certain extent is that you get what you pay for,
though I doubt one can apply this too rigidly to such a hocus-pocus
field as magnetic media. It would be nice if the manufacturers of
diskettes (and tapes too for that matter) would stop trying to snow is
and come up with some meaningful standard, industry-wide performance
specifications. It is not likely that they will.
							Charlie
11-Dec-82 06:45:00,1154;000000000000
Date: 11 December 1982 08:45-EST
From: Charlie Strom <CSTROM@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  CP/M plus compatibility, etc.
To: heiby at Hi-Multics
cc: bridger at Rand-Unix, INFO-CPM at BRL, Heiby.APSE at Hi-Multics
Via:  Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 8:49-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 8:55-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 9:04-EST

I can only tell you that a friend is running an RCPM under CP/M plus
in bank-switched mode. He had no problem running the 2.2 softeare
without modification. I guess Gary was too busy elsewhere in DR to be
current with the development team.
An interesting aside on CP/M plus development that I heard from a
reliable source - CP/M Plus was developed in C on the DR VAX and
cross-assembled to run on the in-house ALTOS. I understand that their
were mucho bugs as a result that took months to iron out. I am curious
as to whether the development group would do it the same way again or
go back to native assembly language? Sorry, I could get no info on
which C was used; there has been a persisent rumor about that DR will
release a C of their own for the micro community, but all I have
gotten up to now are wry smiles and no comments!
11-Dec-82 07:59:00,859;000000000000
Date: 11 Dec 1982 0959-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Ml>
Subject: how to get your name removed from the list.
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Ml; 11 Dec 82 9:59-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 10:14-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 10:26-EST

look people, this is getting silly. i can't do a * thing about
who is or isn't on the mailing list, and neither can 99% of
the other people who are on it.

there is a de-facto standard for mailing lists. if the list is called 
BRAIN-DAMAGED@HOST  then all requests for changes of address,
additions, deletions, etc should go to BRAIN-DAMAGED-REQUEST@HOST not
to the whole #%$^%&#^$* list. 

the next person to adct brain-damaged after this message gets out
will recieve the entire source code for a PDP-0 cobol
compiler in his mailbox. CUT IT OUT!
					disgusted,
					-andy
-------
11-Dec-82 08:08:00,563;000000000000
Date: 11 Dec 1982 1008-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Ml>
Subject: Re: Floppy Disk Warning!!!
To: CSTROM at Mit-Mc
cc: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70, Info-CPM at BRL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 11-Dec-82 0931-EST
Via:  Mit-Ml; 11 Dec 82 10:10-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 10:21-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 10:39-EST

just goes to show. you usually *do* get what you pay for.
maxell makes some of the best mag. med. overall, and the best
floppies around. like i've said before, they'll take abuse
and not drop data.
					-andy
-------
11-Dec-82 09:50:00,1006;000000000000
Date: Saturday, 11 December 1982  11:50-EST
Sender: X.GYRO.MIT-OZ at BRL
From: X.GYRO at Mit-Mc
To:   Charlie Strom <CSTROM@Mit-Mc>
Cc:   info-cpm at BRL
Subject: Floppy Disk Warning!!!
In-reply-to: The message of 11 Dec 1982  08:36-EST from Charlie Strom <CSTROM at Mit-Mc>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 11:50-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 11:56-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 11:59-EST

A friend of mine at DEC was responsible for designing the drives and
selecting the media for the DEC PCs.  He did extensive head wear
testing of various diskettes with the following interesting result:
Maxell disks had the lowest error rate, but were by far the most
abrasive.  Dysan and Verbatim Datalife were almost as low in errors,
and much less abrasive. (I think he finally picked Datalife, but I'm
not sure.)  But the point is, watch out for Maxell!  (And especially
don't mix them with other disks -- a little of the abrasive remains on
the heads and will rapidly destroy softer coatings.)

-- Scott
11-Dec-82 15:15:02,1399;000000000000
Date:     11 Dec 82 15:15:02 EST  (Sat)
From:     Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay>
Subject:  Re:  8080 to 8086 translation
To:       Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>, goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay
Cc:       info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers
Via:  UCF-CS; 11 Dec 82 22:12-EST
Via:  Udel-Relay; 11 Dec 82 22:34-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 22:42-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 22:48-EST

Jerry,
As far as I know, Compupro has pasted together a CP/M-80 BIOS that
will work with DRI assemblers which is probably the one you are referring
to.  However, they haven't done so yet for CP/M-86 (to my knowledge).
Following is a quote from Compupro's Techcal manual for CP/M-86:

		  REASSEMBLING THE CP/M 86 SYSTEM

	"To reassemble the CP/M 86 system (which consists of the loader
and the CPM.SYS file, you will need the following:

	1.  Obviously you will need a working system.
	2.  A copy of ACT-86 from Sorcim.(*)
	3.  A working version of CP/M 80 with utilities.

		.
		.
		.


------------------------------------------

(*) ACT-86 can be obtained for $175 from          (address withheld
						    due to commercial
						      restrictions of
						       ARPA-land)

   or probably from your local computer dealer."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, that is some CHUTZPAH, in my humble opinion.

					Ben
11-Dec-82 17:20:00,1042;000000000000
Date: 11 Dec 1982 1920-EST
From: Larry Seiler <Seiler@Mit-Xx>
Subject: Re: how to get your name removed from the list.
To: RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ at Mit-Ml
cc: Seiler at Mit-Xx
Remailed-date: 11 Dec 1982 1921-EST
Remailed-from: Larry Seiler <Seiler at MIT-XX>
Remailed-to: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Xx; 11 Dec 82 19:13-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 19:21-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 19:31-EST

Andy,
    I agree that it is irritating to get all these "please remove me from
the list messages."  However, these people don't send their message to the
list just to irritate you (and me).  They do it becuase they don't know
any better.  So telling them about the XXX-REQUEST@HOST standard is
reasonable and useful;  indulging in gratuitous insults and threats is
not.  C'mon, Andy Scott Beals:  we are people out here, not extensions
of your computer terminal.  And there was a time when even you did not
know what you were doing.

Larry Seiler

PS - My apologies to the people on the list who didn't want to see this.
-------
11-Dec-82 17:31:00,1145;000000000000
Date: 11 December 1982 19:31-EST
From: Sol Libes <SLIBES@Mit-Mc>
To: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 20:41-EST
Via:  Brl; 11 Dec 82 20:55-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 21:11-EST

	The CP/M-User Group of the Amateur Computer Group of New Jersey will have the following speakers at their January and February meetings and invites
all interested CP/Mer's to attend.
	Friday, January 7th: TOPIC: "CP/M-Plus (Version 3.0).  The features
and enhancements of the new version of CP/M for single and multi-banked 
systems.  Also, how to implement such systems.
	SPEAKER: Bruce Ratoff
	Friday, February 4th: TOPIC: "ZCPR-II & SYSLIB".  A discussion of two
of the more popular software packages in the SIG/M public domain software
library.  ZCPR is an enhanced replacement for the standard CP/M CCP.  SYSLIB
is a 3-Volume set of integrated macros for use with the Microsoft Macro-
assembler.
	SPEAKER: Richard Conn, author of ZCPR and SYSLIB.

	The SIG/M software library is a function of the CP/M user group of
ACG-NJ.  The meetings are held at: Union County College, 1776 Raritan Rd, 
Scotch Plains NJ, beginning at 8PM.
11-Dec-82 22:53:00,955;000000000000
Date: 12 Dec 1982 0053-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: [Bill Rizzi <RIZZI at USC-ISIB at MIT-XX>: re: how to get name removed from list]
To: info-cpm at BRL
cc: info-cpm-request at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 1:04-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 1:20-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 1:32-EST

i totally agree with the following.
                ---------------

Date: 11 Dec 1982 1620-PST
From: Bill Rizzi <RIZZI at USC-ISIB at MIT-XX>

	I share your sentiments, but it appears the ditribution of this list
is growing and there are a LOT of new users who aren't familiar with the
conventions.  I think some sort of reminder sent periodically would help, as
well as a general guideline sent to each person who gets themselves on the
list.

	Bill
------------------
info-cpm-request, are you listening?

better yet, i could just mail out all of the info-cpm archives.... 
hmmmm.......
					-andy
-------
11-Dec-82 23:03:00,281;000000000000
Date: 12 December 1982 01:03-EST
From: Herb Lin <LIN@Mit-Mc>
Subject: ms-dos
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 1:05-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 1:20-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 1:33-EST

anyone out there care to compare MS/DOS to CPM-86?  personal experience pls.
12-Dec-82 00:41:00,3591;000000000000
Date: 12 December 1982 02:41-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  8080 to 8086 translation
To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay
cc: info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers
Via:  Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 2:46-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 2:57-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:38-EST

I had not known of the restriction son the CP/M-86 BIOS, and
thought in fact we were discussing the dual processor CP/M-80
BIOS.  However, I understand what is happening.  They GOT the
BIOS from  SORCIM.  Digital Research for better or worse WILL
NOT deal with individuals regarding CPM-86.  I understand that
their attitude was in large part responsible for IBM going to
MSDOS; that may be wrong, but th sstory comes from one who ought
to know.
	Godbout doesn't do software; they buy it from others
(and to my certain knowledge no outfit is locked in with them,
either; I saw Godbout hire someone from outside to do some of
their software at COMDEX).  They needed something that runs;
SRCIM was willing to supply it; SORCIM naturally wrote it with
their own assembler in mind.
	In my judgment, Digital has got a bit too big to care
much for the users.  They have taken the examples out of
documents; they yhave taken the Pascal MT+86 documents, and the
Speed Programming Package documents; and made them from not too
good to absolutely horrid and unreadable; and they seem to be
working at that sort of thing.  They can, after all, make far
more by selling to OEM's (which is where the money is).
	On the other hand, a sufficiently bright hacker could
com eup with a well documented easy to use operating system that
was upward compatible with MSDOS and CP/M (by means of
translators perhaps) and offer some frienddliness to users, and
some willingness to prepare sane documents understandalbe to
users, and t ake over DR's place before Kildall knows what is
happening; the SUPPLIERS and OEM's are not happy with having to
supply documents (or buy them from Rodney Zaks)...

	So: some see problems, some see chalenges, and some see
opportunities...  Anyone thinking of doing an operating system
for thed 8088 and 8086 machiens?  I know lots of customers, and
maybe the documents could be written better by a chimpanzee I
know...

    Date: 11 Dec 82 15:15:02 EST  (Sat)
    From: Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay>
    To:   Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE>, goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay
    cc:   info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers
    Re:   8080 to 8086 translation

    Jerry,
    As far as I know, Compupro has pasted together a CP/M-80 BIOS that
    will work with DRI assemblers which is probably the one you are referring
    to.  However, they haven't done so yet for CP/M-86 (to my knowledge).
    Following is a quote from Compupro's Techcal manual for CP/M-86:

    		  REASSEMBLING THE CP/M 86 SYSTEM

    	"To reassemble the CP/M 86 system (which consists of the loader
    and the CPM.SYS file, you will need the following:

    	1.  Obviously you will need a working system.
    	2.  A copy of ACT-86 from Sorcim.(*)
    	3.  A working version of CP/M 80 with utilities.

    		.
    		.
    		.


    ------------------------------------------

    (*) ACT-86 can be obtained for $175 from          (address withheld
    						    due to commercial
    						      restrictions of
    						       ARPA-land)

       or probably from your local computer dealer."
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, that is some CHUTZPAH, in my humble opinion.

    					Ben
12-Dec-82 00:46:00,1158;000000000000
Date: 12 December 1982 02:46-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  8080 to 8086 translation
To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay
cc: info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers
Via:  Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 2:45-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 2:56-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:37-EST

	I have CP/M 86 running with my dual processor 8085/8088;
the program came from Godbout and runs as it came (my system
uses all Godbout stuff, Interfacers and system support board);
it automatically checks memory size.  I know little about it; I
am getting my own copy shortly (I have an older one I never
used) and meanwhile am running with one from a chap from
elsewhere (I'll errase it when my own comes; but I needed to
check the operation of the 8087 board; on that more later).

	The CP/M 86 from CompuPro worked for me without any
reassembly at all; I suppose I could dig out ACT if I had to but
there was not need.  Is it normal to have to reassamble to get
working?  Or are there special things you need to do?  I agrtee
one ought to have one's BIOS source, and I expect I'd be unhappy
if I had to buy a special assembler just to work with my own...
12-Dec-82 00:53:00,662;000000000000
Date: 12 December 1982 02:53-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  Floppy Disk Warning!!!
To: X.GYRO at Mit-Mc
cc: CSTROM at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 2:49-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 2:57-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:39-EST

Thank you.  I had not known about Maxell disks.
	Query: does anyone have a program that will cause the
heads to load although nothing is being read?  This to allow use
of head cleaning disks.  I suppose this might be specific to the
controller used?  I have a CompuPro Disk One in two separate
machines (8085/8088 and z-80).  It's nt simple to get them to
clean the heads, or is it?
12-Dec-82 00:58:00,698;000000000000
Date: 12 December 1982 02:58-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  CP/M plus compatibility, etc.
To: CSTROM at Mit-Mc
cc: bridger at Rand-Unix, INFO-CPM at BRL, Heiby.APSE at Hi-Multics, 
    heiby at Hi-Multics
Via:  Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 2:54-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 3:13-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:40-EST

Semi-confirmed rumour department: Digital research has several
pretty good hackers working on a 8088 C compiler.
	Problem is, aside from bundling in Kernighan and Ritchie
(if they are smart) will you be able to survive Digital's
documents, which will be written by their in house "Professional
technical writers" (the quotes are from a HIGh DR official)??
12-Dec-82 01:01:00,720;000000000000
Date: 12 December 1982 03:01-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  Floppy Disk Warning!!!
To: CSTROM at Mit-Mc
cc: Info-CPM at BRL, UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70
Via:  Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 3:22-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 3:29-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:41-EST

CompuPro did a number of tests and  concluded that DYSAN has
least wear and is about as good as any for error-free
performance.
	DYSAN buys their disks from Scotch (or else from same
source as Scotch) but I am told that they do more polishing and
quality checking.  I am also told that they take all disks from
same source, test them, and if they get any soft errors on one
side but not other they put the disk out as single-sided...
12-Dec-82 02:44:00,1054;000000000000
Date: 12 Dec 1982 at 0344-CST
From: alt at Utexas-11
Subject: Reply to: ms-dos
To: LIN at Mit-Mc
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Utexas-11; 12 Dec 82 4:56-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 5:11-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 5:21-EST

I have no experience with CPM-86, but I am working with MS-DOS right now.
I really dislike MS-DOS.  The features it has are nice, but the
simple stuff really drives me crazy.  For example:  you are running
a program. you change disks.  the next time ms-dos looks at the disk,
it says ``gee, the file allocation table needs to be updated since the
one I have here in core is different. UPDATE''.  bash.  I suppose
one could live with that, but all of the calls to MS-DOS are really
primitive compared to CPM-86 from what I have seen.  If you have
a choice, go with CPM-86.  My opinion of ms-dos: wicked, evil, bad,
nasty, get it away  ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!   The only reason I am
using it is I am beeing paid lots of money to write a silly program.

			Good Luck,
			Howard.
PS I'll never do it again.
-------
12-Dec-82 06:15:00,557;000000000000
Date: 12 December 1982 08:15-EST
From: Charlie Strom <CSTROM@Mit-Mc>
Subject: UNERASE Utility
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 8:10-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 8:20-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 8:48-EST

I have uploaded to MIT-MC:

		AR23:CPM;UNERA 15ASM

which is a simple utility which will recover a file that has been ERAsed
as long as it has not been overwritten. It will automatically configure
itself for CP/M 2.2 systems using the DPB; there are built-in sector
translation tables which must be modified for pre 2.x systems.
12-Dec-82 07:13:49,854;000000000000
Date:     12 Dec 82 07:13:49 EST  (Sun)
From:     Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay>
Subject:  Re: Floppy Disk Warning!!!
To:       Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Ml>
Cc:       info-micro at BRL, info-cpm at BRL
Via:  UCF-CS; 12 Dec 82 21:44-EST
Via:  Udel-Relay; 12 Dec 82 21:43-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 22:02-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 22:33-EST

So many times we have seen testimonials about a particular brand of
floppy disk; I'm certain yours will not be the last of them.  Unfortunately,
no one has ever been able to come up with any empirical data to
substantiate his claim.  I'm partial to Memorex because they're cheap
and relatively error-free, albeit they sound terrible.

Somewhere someone has tested various brands of diskettes -- I'd sure
like to see the results posted to the net!
					Ben Goldfarb
12-Dec-82 07:33:29,1188;000000000000
Date:     12 Dec 82 07:33:29 EST  (Sun)
From:     Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay>
Subject:  Re:  8080 to 8086 translation
To:       Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>, goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay
Cc:       info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers
Via:  UCF-CS; 12 Dec 82 21:45-EST
Via:  Udel-Relay; 12 Dec 82 21:44-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 22:02-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 22:36-EST

I tend to agree that Godbout does a terrific job of supplying preconfigured
CPM's for just about every combination of their hardware.  Unfortunately,
(but in some respects, fortunately), I augment the CompuPro stuff with a 
CCS 4-port serial board that I have modified to do what I want.  I need 
a full-spec RS232 port to drive my Racal-Vadic, which I use for a RCP/M
system part of the time.  But the rest is all Godbout:  8085/8088, memory,
Disk 1, and System Support 1.

Thus, BIOS programming is necessary in my case.  I like to use an interrupt-
driven keyboard as well, and Sorcim does not provide for that.  So I have
to modify the BIOS to handle that.  I am also a hacker/tinkerer and I love
to play with CP/M.  That's why I need to have an assembleable BIOS.
					Ben
12-Dec-82 09:22:00,2064;000000000000
Date: 12 December 1982  11:22-EST (Sunday)
Sender: CARTER.RU-GREEN at BRL
From: Bob <Carter@Rutgers>
Cc:   RIZZI at Usc-Isib, info-cpm at BRL
To:   Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: [Bill Rizzi <RIZZI at USC-ISIB at MIT-XX>: re: how to get name removed from list]
Via:  Rutgers; 12 Dec 82 11:18-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 11:27-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 11:31-EST

    From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Mc>

    i totally agree with the following.
                    ---------------
    From: Bill Rizzi <RIZZI at USC-ISIB at MIT-XX>

			   I think some sort of reminder sent
    periodically would help, as well as a general guideline sent to
    each person who gets themselves on the list.

I certainly am not sure that I agree; the problem is irrelevant
excess material sent to the entire list.  The solution offered is
sending more irrelevant material to the entire list.

    ------------------
    info-cpm-request, are you listening?

If there is one thing the poor maintainer does not deserve, it is sarcasm.

    better yet, i could just mail out all of the info-cpm
    archives.... hmmmm.......
					-andy

Even as an @i(unattractive) joke, the threat to engage in this kind
of destructive conduct troubles.  It is contrary to the most
important convention governing lists; that all net usage be governed
by a spirit of cooperation and courtesy, particularly on the part of
guest users. (Or does this user have a federal contract number?) This
sounds more like bullying.  The fact that the bully would have to
spend six weeks saying M-X Split File in order to carry it out the
threat might not be known to the novice user being threatened.

If the occasional 'please remove' message bothers so much, why not
spend a few moments hacking a function to search for messages
containing those words and strip them from the Babyl file?  Better
still, do something constructive; hack COMSAT so it will redirect
those messages to the REQUEST addressee automagically.

_Bob
12-Dec-82 12:27:00,363;000000000000
Return-Path: <Schauble@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>
Date:  12 December 1982 12:27 est
From:  Schauble.Multics at Mit-Multics
Subject:  CP/M C compilers
To:  info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Multics; 12 Dec 82 12:30-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 12:52-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 13:18-EST

Do any of the CP/M C compilers implement typedef or structure
assignments?

	Paul
12-Dec-82 16:17:26,605;000000000000
Date: 12 Dec 1982 18:17:26-EST
From: parker at Nrl-Css (Alan Parker)
To: info-cpm at BRL
Subject: QT SBC 2/4 Query
Via:  Nrl-Css; 12 Dec 82 18:15-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 18:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 18:25-EST

I am putting together a system using the QT SBC 2/4 Z80 board.  Could
anyone comment on what would be a  good choice for  a disk controller
for use with this board?   Any knowledge of the availability of a CPM
BIOS?  Right now it looks like my best choice is to buy a decent
controller and roll my own BIOS.   Anyone have the QT disk controller?
I don't think I trust them.
12-Dec-82 17:36:00,363;000000000000
Date: 12 Dec 1982 at 1836-CST
From: mknox at Utexas-11
Subject: C-compiler / Digital Research
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Utexas-11; 12 Dec 82 19:40-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 19:56-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 20:00-EST


Don't know about CP/M-plus, but CP/M-68 has a C compiler, and at least some of
the code is written in C, maybe all of it.

-------
12-Dec-82 17:46:00,545;000000000000
Date: 12 Dec 1982 1946-EST
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: getting the heads to load.
To: POURNE at Mit-Mc, pourne at Mit-Mc
cc: X.GYRO at Mit-Mc, CSTROM at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL, info-cpm at BRL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 12-Dec-82 0526-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 20:16-EST
Via:  Brl; 12 Dec 82 20:31-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 20:33-EST

it's VERY controller specific. just boot on that drive, or
select it. the head usually stays loaded long enough to clean
the head(s).
					-andy
-------
12-Dec-82 23:55:00,2138;000000000000
Date: Sunday, 12 Dec 1982 22:55-PST
Realname: Lauren Weinstein
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
Subject: HELP!
From: lauren at Rand-Unix
Via:  Rand-Unix; 15 Dec 82 0:32-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 1:20-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 1:53-EST

Greetings.  Well gang, the venerable old hardware on which I do all
MARC development has finally undergone a major breakdown.  It did this
to me once before (over a year ago) but spontaneously recovered before
I could track down the cause.  This time I suspect I'm not going to
be so "lucky".  The primary symptom is that the Morrow M10 hard disk is not
operating properly, but I have strong reasons to believe that something(s)
much more fundamental are actually amiss.  I am trying to avoid a full
reformat of the M10 if at all possible.  There is no money to buy
new equipment. 

I no longer have access to a fast scope, and am getting close to burning
out on trying to fix this monster by myself.  MARC development has
stopped (extremely close to distribution) until the hardware is back
in a reasonable state -- it is impossible for me to continue work
on my floppies, since MANY complex assemblies and compilations are
involved -- they would simply be far too time consuming on floppies
(the MARC source is highly modular, and I'm paying for that now!)
I'm not so sure I trust the floppies right now, either.

The (basic) hardware involved is:

IMSAI mainframe (the one with all the pretty lights)
2 OLD microbyte 32K static memory boards (fry an egg on the heat sinks) 
Ithica Audio Z-80 (4Mhz) CPU
Tarbell single-density disk controller (Persci 270 drives)
Morrow M10 hard disk and controller
Misc. I/O boards

If there's anybody in the L.A. area who thinks they have a prayer of
dealing with this equipment, and would care to (quickly!) help me
get the system fully operational again, I would VERY MUCH appreciate
it if you'd get in touch with me as soon as possible.  Please contact
me by netmail or at Vortex on (213) 645-7200.  A free copy of the
distributed MARC, and other goodies, to anyone who can help me with
this problem!  Thanks much.

--Lauren--
13-Dec-82 01:15:00,1588;000000000000
Date: 13 December 1982 03:15-EST
From: Paul L Kelley <PLK@Mit-Mc>
Subject: MODEM796
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
cc: W8SDZ at Mit-Mc, PLOUFF at Mit-Mc, STORK at Mit-Mc, ELIOT at Mit-Mc, 
    CSTROM at Mit-Mc, FJW at Mit-Mc, RIZZI at Usc-Isib
Via:  Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 4:19-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 4:46-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 4:50-EST


	New files for MODEM796 are indicated with arrows below.

MC  CPM    AR61   MODEM7

  0   HIS794 796DIF 1	<-- MODEM794.HIS - MODEM796.HIS  DIF file
  0   MCNFG  794ASM 3
  0   MCOSB  794ASM 2
  0   MDM794 796DIF 2	<-- MODEM794.ASM - MODEM796.ASM  DIF file
  0   MNUM   794ASM 1
  0   MODEM  768DOC 4
  0   MODEM  794ASM 17
  0   MODEM  794COM 4 
  0   MODEM  794HEX 9 
  0   MODEM  794HIS 4 
  0   MODEM  794INF 1 
  0   MODEM  796LIB 4 	<-- New LIB file
  0   MODEM  796MSG 1	<-- Message concerning new files
  0   MODEM  796SET 2 	<-- New SET file

In a few days I will update the other files.

The following describes the changes:


;12/12/82   Made the following changes:
;
;		1. Fixed initial timeout delay on receiving a file,
;		2. Revised XOFF/XON testing routines,
;		3. Revised routine to change user number to allow
;		   better checking of input errors,
;		4. Suppressed user 0 display after default drive message,
;		5. Added routines to memory buffer printer.
;							P. L. Kelley

;12/12/82   Revised send file message in library and reformatted library.
;							I. M. Hoff

;12/04/82   Added routines to change user number and display user number
;		after default drive message.		G. Kantor
13-Dec-82 05:25:00,296;000000000000
Date: 13 Dec 1982 0725-EST
From: SHOLAR at Cmu-Cs-C
Subject: Who has public LISP?
To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 4:20-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 4:46-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 4:55-EST

Can the person with the public domain LISP share it with the net?
Thanks.
-------
13-Dec-82 08:22:00,671;000000000000
Date: 13 Dec 1982 (Monday) 1122-EDT
From: PLATTS at Wharton-10 (Steve Platt)
Subject: cpm 3.0 time stamp
To:   bridger at Rand-Unix
cc:   info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Wharton-10; 15 Dec 82 2:51-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 3:24-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 3:32-EST

 ...around 6 months ago I read through some preliminary CPM 3.0
specs; the general impression I got was that one of every four FCB's
(i.e. one of the four in each 128 byte (deblocked) sector) was to be
used for time and date stamping.  Sorry I don't
remember any particular formats, but at least you'll know where to find
the thing!  (I believe it was also the *last* of the four fcb's..)
   -steve
13-Dec-82 10:38:00,352;000000000000
Date: 13 Dec 1982 10:38 PST
From: ANYIWO.ES at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Please take my name off this distribution list
To: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
cc:  ANYIWO.ES at Parc-Maxc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 4:20-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 4:46-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 4:54-EST

Please take my name off this distribution list.

Thanks,

Arthur <ANYIWO.ES
13-Dec-82 15:38:00,1192;000000000000
Date: 13 Dec 1982 at 1438-PST
To: info-cpm at BRL
Subject: how to remove your name...
From: fylstra.tsca at Sri-Tsc
Via:  Sri-Tsca; 14 Dec 82 19:30-PST
Via:  Sri-Tsc; 15 Dec 82 0:30-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 1:20-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 1:52-EST

I suggest the simple expedient of sending an introductory message to each
person at the time the individual joins the list.  This standardized message
would describe...

	- the general topic of the mailing list
	- ARPAnet rules governing commercially-oriented messages
	- a comment on copyright observance (?)
	- the organization of the CPM archives, including how to FTP files
	  and the special structure of binary files
	- some rules of mailing list etiquette (amazing that this should
	  seem to be necessary)
	- an indication of the estimated size of the readership
	- the XXX-REQUEST rule for obtaining administrative services,
	  making particular note that this is the preferred technique
	  for getting off the list.

These boilerplate topics surface on INFO-CPM from time to time, and it seems
best to handle them all at once at intro time.  Periodic rebroadcasts are
not the way to go.

Dave Fylstra
15-Dec-82 02:11:00,420;000000000000
Date: 15 December 1982 04:11-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  Reply to: ms-dos
To: alt at Utexas-11
cc: LIN at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 6:28-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 7:58-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 8:17-EST

Mark Dahmke, who is pretty smart, says "Going from MSDOS to
CPM-86 is like going to CP/M from TRS-DOS."  I am quoting him in
about the March column.  JEP
15-Dec-82 02:27:00,1405;000000000000
Date: 15 December 1982 04:27-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject: somebody gotta DO something
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 6:28-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 7:58-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 8:26-EST

	It is another Night of the long knives; about fifty
messages from mailer daemons and memo services and the like
telling me that messages sent to various lists (mostly info-cpm)
didn't get to recipients I never heard of.
	There must be a way to direct such mail to the list
maintainer, or to a file that people could read if they want to
see who on a list doesn't get their mail.  This thing at 300
baud takes about half an hour to get rid of; because it has
included headers, and GZ tells me there is no way for my magic
header remover she wrote to scrub out included vias and
remaileds and so forth; thus it fills the flinking screen EACH
time and will not accept a "d" command until it has filled the
screen; leaving one screeching in rage and wondering about the
"convenience" of electronic mail.
	Surely there is a solution to this problem?  And alas, I
will now get back about five copies of T HIS message, filling
disk space (some of the messages fail because people have
exceeded their disk quota, so the mailer exceeds mine with dead
mail?)

ah well.  What cannot be cured, and all that, but really, isn't
someone out there smart?

jep
15-Dec-82 06:15:20,540;000000000000
Date: 15 Dec 1982  6:15:20 CST (Wednesday)
From: Mike Meyer <mwm@Okc-Unix>
Subject: Re:  JRT Pascal released in SIG/M
In-Reply-to: Your message of     10 Dec 82 16:46:33-EST (Fri)
To: Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
Cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL
Via:  Okc-Unix; 15 Dec 82 7:20-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 8:10-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 8:47-EST

What is the possibility of somebody uploading JRT Pascal to MC? It looks like
the restrictions on it are the same (or less) than the restictions on software
already on MC.

	<mike
15-Dec-82 07:20:00,1211;000000000000
Date: 15 Dec 1982 0920-EST (Wednesday)
From: dudley at Nadc
Subject: 6502 disassembler
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Nadc; 15 Dec 82 10:01-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 10:27-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 10:32-EST

        I have modified the Z80 disassembler ZDASM to do its mag-
ic  on 6502 code.  The changes from the net-available version are
almost entirely in the opcode specific file DASM6502.MAC which is
a  carved  up  copy  of DASMZ80.MAC.  The only change to the main
body of ZDASM is the extra INCLUDE needed to bring in the new op-
code  file.   (Obviously if one were to name the 6502 opcode file
DASMZ80.MAC then no changes would be needed at all  to  the  main
body.)
        I have successfully disassembled a 2k rom and reassembled
it  to  an  identical object code copy and so even though I can't
claim extensive testing, it does do the job.
        I can make the opcode module  available  to  the  net  if
there is interest and if someone then shows me how.  I would like
to put it somewhere where  the  net  population  can  get  to  it
without bothering me (i.e. the archives.)  I am interested in bug
reports, though.
                                Bill Dudley
-------
15-Dec-82 13:35:00,559;000000000000
Date: 15 Dec 1982 1535-EST
From: PGA.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc
Subject: Jonah or Jonos
To: info-micro at BRL, info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 15:40-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 15:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 21:34-EST

I want to know who makes the Jonah or Jonos portable computer,
where I can get one, and how much it costs.  I've seen one
in California and was very impressed, but I haven't been able
to find out anything more.

I want it for Christmas, so if you know anything, please tell
me right away.

Thanks,

Phill Apley

-------
15-Dec-82 14:09:29,1527;000000000000
Date:     15 Dec 82 16:09:29-EST (Wed)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       Mike Meyer <mwm@Okc-Unix>
cc:       Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>, info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL
Subject:  Re:  JRT Pascal released in SIG/M
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 15:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 21:37-EST

	I really don't know about the possibility of an upload of JRT
PASCAL to MC.  I personally don't have the disk; just read about it in
the news letter.  Also, I have some questions about this action by
SIG/M, in particular, if JRT was contacted for approval first.  No mention
was made about this being done.

	What's bothering me about this is that (1) JRT PASCAL is still
being sold by JRT, even if it IS for $30, and (2) SIG/M (and PASCAL/Z UG)
are nation-wide, even international, distribution systems.  Such an action
takes a LOT of potential sales away from JRT, and, if they didn't ask
JRT permission to do this, I wonder if this is right, morally (i.e.,
is this PIRACY?).  I'm aware of one occasion in which pirated software entered
the SIG/M distribution system, but it was removed as soon as the error was
discovered (I don't even remember the details right now).  I'm sure the
SIG/M people want to do what's right, but did they apply an interpretation
to the JRT offer which was not intended (and did JRT know of their existance)?

	Hence, in a nutshell, I'd like to chat to SIG/M coordinator(s)
first to see if this is truly the case (i.e., they asked JRT first) before
saying anything else.

		Rick
15-Dec-82 14:17:58,884;000000000000
Date:     15 Dec 82 16:17:58-EST (Wed)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       blue at Nbs-Sdc
cc:       info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL
Subject:  Re:  SIG/M
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 15:26-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 21:39-EST

        Yes, SIG/M is quite different from CPM/UG. It is a  whole
different  set  (close to 100 by now) of disks, all public domain
software.  They have a catalog to facilitate scanning and  selec-
tion  of  software,  and a number of their better programs are on
MIT-MC now.

        Lifeboat's (or whoever's) CPM/UG occasionally lifts SIG/M
software  for  inclusion in their own disks.  Among other things,
SIG/M contains ZCPR1, 1.4, and 1.6, as well as SYSLIB and,  soon,
the new ZCPR2.

        SIG/M can be contacted at:

                SIG/M
                Box 97
                Iselin, NJ  08830

                Rick
15-Dec-82 18:37:00,559;000000000000
From: tekmdp!laurir.Tektronix at Rand-Relay
To: tektronix!info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Date: 15 Dec 1982 at 1737-PST (Wednesday)
Subject: shortening CP/M files
Via:  tektronix; 21 Dec 82 19:27-PDT
Via:  Mit-Mc; 21 Dec 82 22:31-EST
Via:  Brl; 21 Dec 82 23:06-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 23:15-EST

To shorten a CP/M file and free its extra blocks, just zero the
unwanted disk indices in the FCB and do a CLOSE, then either RESET the
disk or do a warm boot to force recomputation of the free block vector.
  -- Andrew Klossner (laurir.tektronix@rand-relay)
15-Dec-82 20:47:02,705;000000000000
Date:     15 Dec 82 22:47:02-EST (Wed)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       SHOLAR at Cmu-Cs-C
cc:       info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Subject:  Re:  Who has public LISP?
Via:  Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 23:09-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 17:46-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 0:05-EST

	I have found a pointer to a public-domain LISP in SIG/M.
It is in Vol 71 of SIG/M and Vol 14 of PASCAL/Z User's Group.
The only note is that it is source to a LISP written in PASCAL/Z,
is 26K long, and there is no COM file included.  I don't have this
disk or a PASCAL/Z compiler with which to compile it, but you may
find something on one of the RBBSs or someone else may have ready
access to this that I don't.

		Rick
15-Dec-82 23:35:15,443;000000000000
Date:     15 Dec 82 23:35:15 EST  (Wed)
From:     Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay>
Subject:  Re:  Reply to: ms-dos
To:       Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>, alt at Utexas-11
Cc:       info-cpm at BRL, LIN at Mit-Mc
Via:  UCF-CS; 16 Dec 82 2:48-EST
Via:  Udel-Relay; 17 Dec 82 0:01-EST
Via:  Brl; 17 Dec 82 0:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 0:26-EST

Is that good or bad, Jerry?  I've never used either MSDOS or TRS-DOS.
16-Dec-82 00:16:00,539;000000000000
Date: 16 December 1982 02:16-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  HELP!
To: lauren at Rand-Unix
cc: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 16 Dec 82 2:32-EST
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 21:07-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 3:00-EST

I have told Nor Singh of your plight.  He knows about old Imsai
systems.  He doesn't have much money, and has twins to support,
so how m uch work he could do for free I do not know.  He lives
in West LA.  Anyway, I expect he will call you.  I have told him
you don't have much money either...
16-Dec-82 08:40:36,3259;000000000000
Date:     16 Dec 82 10:40:36-EST (Thu)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       allegra!phr at Ucb-C70
cc:       rconn at BRL, info-micro at BRL, info-cpm at BRL
Subject:  ACG-NJ Info et al
Via:  Brl; 16 Dec 82 11:15-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 11:28-EST

        SIG/M is an interest group of the Amateur Computer  Group
of NJ, which meets at either Union County College or Rutgers here
in NJ each month.  They have several user's groups involved  with
the  IBM-PC,  VIC-20, North Star, and other computers, as well as
interest groups in Pascal and CP/M (SIG/M).

        The ACG-NJ is probably the largest computer club  in  the
US  now.   It  numbers well over 1000 members, supports the SIG/M
distribution system, and runs two remote bulletin board systems.

        To contact the RBBS's of ACG-NJ, the  phone  numbers  are
201-272-1874 in Cranford and 201-932-3879 in Piscataway.

        To contact the ACG-NJ itself for membership  applications
and other information, the address is:

                Amateur Computer Group of New Jersey
                PO Box 319
                South Bound Brook, NJ  08880

        To contact SIG/M for obtaining disks and  info,  the  ad-
dress is:

                SIG/M
                Box 97
                Iselin, NJ  08830

        Other messages follow:
Date:     23 Nov 82 7:39:31-EST (Tue)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL
Subject:  [Sol Libes:  SYSLIB, Copying Files, the ACG-NJ, and SIG/M]

Sol has some good info to add to my message re SIG/M and the ACG-NJ.
Thought you would like to see it.

        Rick

----- Forwarded message # 1:

Date: 22 November 1982 22:47-EST
From: Sol Libes <SLIBES at MIT-MC>
Subject:  SYSLIB, Copying Files, the ACG-NJ, and SIG/M
To: rconn at BRL
cc: SLIBES at MIT-MC, Bomberger at OFFICE-2

Dear Rick:
        Thanks for the plug for SIG/M and ACG-NJ.  I wish to just
correct you on one thing.  One does not have to be a member of ACG-NJ
to order or copy SIG/M disks.  This service is offered to both members
and non-members at no extra charge.  Also, SIG/M has now released
85 volumes.  A copy of our printed catalog is $1 or $1.50 via mail.
It can be ordered from: SIG/M, Box 97, Iselin NJ 08830.


----- End of forwarded messages




Date:     15 Dec 82 16:17:58-EST (Wed)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       blue at Nbs-Sdc
cc:       info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL
Subject:  Re:  SIG/M
Via:  Brl; 15 Dec 82 15:26-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 21:39-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 16 Dec 82 3:18-EST

        Yes, SIG/M is quite different from CPM/UG. It is a  whole
different  set  (close to 100 by now) of disks, all public domain
software.  They have a catalog to facilitate scanning and  selec-
tion  of  software,  and a number of their better programs are on
MIT-MC now.

        Lifeboat's (or whoever's) CPM/UG occasionally lifts SIG/M
software  for  inclusion in their own disks.  Among other things,
SIG/M contains ZCPR1, 1.4, and 1.6, as well as SYSLIB and,  soon,
the new ZCPR2.

        SIG/M can be contacted at:

                SIG/M
                Box 97
                Iselin, NJ  08830

                Rick
16-Dec-82 19:29:00,463;000000000000
Date: 16 December 1982 21:29-EST
From: Eliot Scott Ramey <ELIOT@Mit-Mc>
Subject: returning blocks to the OS
To: CAL at Mit-Mc
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 16 Dec 82 22:34-EST
Via:  Brl; 16 Dec 82 22:55-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 23:26-EST


	If MARC has this, GREAT!  But if you implement it into CP/M,
say goodbye to compatibility from system to system.  How many people
will get this fix? and how many will use it?

						-Eliot at Mit-DM
16-Dec-82 20:28:00,525;000000000000
Date: 16 December 1982 22:28-EST
From: Richard S Hall <RSH@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  6502 disassembler
To: dudley at Nadc
cc: Info-CPM at BRL
In-reply-to: The message of 15 Dec 1982 0920-EST () from dudley at Nadc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 16 Dec 82 22:35-EST
Via:  Brl; 16 Dec 82 22:55-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 23:27-EST

Please do upload this file to the net!!! Unfortunately I am not the
person to ask about how to get it onto the net, but it is something I
would definately like to have.

				Thanks in advance,
				Rick
16-Dec-82 20:50:36,750;000000000000
Date: 16-Dec-82 19:50:36-PST (Thu)
From: npois!ihlpb!dap1 at Ucb-C70
Message-Id: <8211170350.24235@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A24233; 16-Dec-82 19:50:37-PST (Thu)
To: npois!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70
Via:  Mit-Ai; 16 Dec 82 23:22-EST
Via:  Brl; 16 Dec 82 23:44-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 23:49-EST

I am replying off of my IBM which contains one single-sided and one
double-sided Tandon drive.  I have had the single-sided drive for about
6 Mos. and the double-sided for about 4 Mos. and haven't had a speck of
trouble out of either one yet and even if I did at this point, I'd
still rather have these at around $250 than subsidize the outlandish
prices that IBM tries to charge.
17-Dec-82 00:14:00,449;000000000000
Date: 17 December 1982 02:14-EST
From: Herb Lin <LIN@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  source code?
To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay
cc: POURNE at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers
In-reply-to: The message of 12 Dec 82 07:33:29 EST  (Sun) from Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 17 Dec 82 2:35-EST
Via:  Brl; 17 Dec 82 3:08-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 3:20-EST

just what parts of cp/m (any version) come with source code?
17-Dec-82 02:54:00,498;000000000000
Date: Friday, 17 December 1982  04:54-EST
From: GREN.ELMO.MIT-OZ at BRL
To:   Info-Cpm%Brl at Mit-Mc
Cc:   Elmo.MIT-OZ at BRL
Subject: Apple Cp/M
Reply-to: Elmo%Mit-OZ at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 17 Dec 82 6:31-EST
Via:  Brl; 17 Dec 82 6:53-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 8:20-EST

Does anyone have a version of MODEM that runs under Apple CP/M
and supports the Novation Applecat II 212A option?  Replies at 
least a Cc: to me as I am no longer on the list.

Thanks-
Eliot
Elmo @ Mit-MC
17-Dec-82 04:16:00,410;000000000000
Date: 17 December 1982 06:16-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  Jonah or Jonos
To: PGA.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc
cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL
In-reply-to: The message of 15 Dec 1982 1535-EST from PGA.MIT-OZ
Via:  Mit-Mc; 17 Dec 82 6:22-EST
Via:  Brl; 17 Dec 82 6:50-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 7:02-EST

JONOS LTD.  714-871-1082

Good luck.  They have some production limits.
17-Dec-82 10:42:00,702;000000000000
Date: 17 Dec 1982 1242-EST
From: Bob Clements <CLEMENTS@Bbna>
Sender: CLEMENTS at Bbna
Subject: Any TECOs out there?
To:   Info-CPM at BRL
Cc:   Clements at Bbna
Via:  Bbna; 17 Dec 82 12:41-EST
Via:  Brl; 17 Dec 82 13:41-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 13:52-EST

MINCE is great for what it does, but you can't escape into
an underlying TECO. I find I need some TECO features a lot
of the time, and wind up shipping files down to my TOPS20
and back just to do a little TECO-ing. Namely, general
iteration with < ; >  and number twiddling with 
QU+10UU QU\  and \UN commands.

Before I sit down and write a CPM TECO, has anyone else out 
there already done it?

Thanks,
/Rcc
-------
17-Dec-82 10:57:52,602;000000000000
Date: 17 Dec 1982 10:57:52 CST (Friday)
From: Mike Meyer <mwm@Okc-Unix>
Subject: LISP Benchmarks
To: info-cpm at BRL
Cc: mwm at Okc-Unix
Via:  Okc-Unix; 17 Dec 82 12:17-EST
Via:  Brl; 17 Dec 82 12:27-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 12:54-EST

Does anybody out there have machine readable copies of the LISP benchmarks
used by Jeffrey G. Bonar and Steven P. Levitan in their article `Three
Microcomputer LISPs' in the Sept. '81 Byte?

Conversely, if I type them in, is anybody else interested in them? Or do you
have another favorite LISP benchmark I could get a copy of?

	thanx,
	<mike
17-Dec-82 11:05:00,403;000000000000
Date: 17 Dec 1982 1305-EST
From: Tony <Li@Rutgers>
Subject: Re: source code?
To: LIN at Mit-Mc
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Rutgers; 17 Dec 82 13:08-EST
Via:  Brl; 17 Dec 82 13:51-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 14:07-EST

In-Reply-To: Your message of 17-Dec-82 0214-EST

If you're lucky, your OEM gave you source to your BIOS. Otherwise the
rest is all in object or image form.

Tony
-------
17-Dec-82 20:07:00,3329;000000000000
Date: Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST
To: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc
Subject: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data?
From: bridger at Rand-Unix
Via:  Rand-Unix; 17 Dec 82 22:07-EST
Via:  Brl; 17 Dec 82 22:24-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 22:52-EST

	I've been using a clock/calendar that interrupts once a second and
calls a service routine that sends the current time to the bottom right
corner of the terminal screen.  To do this it sends escape sequences to
save the cursor, position it, and restore it.  The characters are sent
by  BIOS calls to CONOUT.
	Randomly, the terminal would print the time but then fail
to restore the cursor, or switch into reverse video or some other mode.
Things got worse with a new terminal rom (the Super19 ROM for the Heath
H-19) running at 38.4K baud, because this rom has a host of new
escape sequences for extra modes, some of which reinterprete the 
standard ASCII characters.  Having the terminal suddenly in never-never land
is a real pain; to recover you have to go into off-line mode, and reset
the correct modes.
	It turn out that the BIOS is sending characters to the terminal
when it isn't ready to accept them.  At least one gets lost; when the last-
arrived character is an Escape, and its successor is overtaken by another
character, the terminal switches executes a faulty sequence.  For example:

	'ESC k p' --  'ESC k' is restore cursor, 'p' is data
	If 'k' is overtaken, the terminal executes 'ESC p' = reverse video !

	My CONOUT implements hardware handshaking, using the H-89's
8250 serial chip.  I assumed that this, coupled with handshaking by the
H-19 terminal, would prevent dropped characters.  

	NOT SO!! -- because the interrupt routine uses the console output data
port the following sequence of events can and does occur:

	main program sends character to CONOUT
		CONOUT checks clear-to-send line:  it's clear
		now clock interrupts
			saves registers
			clock routine sends a string of characters,
			   filling the terminal buffer
			terminal turns off clear-to-send line: not clear now
			restores registers & returns
		  character sent to terminal (!!)
		  returns to main program
	
	In other words, the real-time status of the CTS line changes from
the time CONOUT reads the line to when it outputs the character.

	Solutions: (1) disable interrupts before reading CTS, enable after
sending the character; have the clock routine use a private version of CONOUT
that doesn't enable interrupts.  (2) Set a flag on entry to CONOUT, reset it
on exit; when flag is set have the clock routine poll CTS until clear before
returning.
	This complexity wouldn't arise if the 8250 had on-chip handshaking
(like the Z-80 SIO) and didn't send out a character until the CTS line
is clear.  I guess the moral is not to trust an interruptible handshake!

	My suspicions that the Super19 ROM was at fault were unfounded, and
I appreciate the time Bob Todd at Extended Technology Systems took to check 
out my questions.  It is indeed a high performance addition to the H-19.
With hardware handshaking and 38.4K baud, text can be redisplayed and edited
very effectively.  
	Now I'm curious to see what the game writers can do with it!
	.


*** Problem during mail receipt from Arpanet ***
17-Dec-82 20:07:00,3268;000000000000
Date: Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST
To: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc
Subject: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data?
From: bridger at Rand-Unix
Via:  Rand-Unix; 18 Dec 82 0:00-EST
Via:  Brl; 18 Dec 82 0:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 0:41-EST

	I've been using a clock/calendar that interrupts once a second and
calls a service routine that sends the current time to the bottom right
corner of the terminal screen.  To do this it sends escape sequences to
save the cursor, position it, and restore it.  The characters are sent
by  BIOS calls to CONOUT.
	Randomly, the terminal would print the time but then fail
to restore the cursor, or switch into reverse video or some other mode.
Things got worse with a new terminal rom (the Super19 ROM for the Heath
H-19) running at 38.4K baud, because this rom has a host of new
escape sequences for extra modes, some of which reinterprete the 
standard ASCII characters.  Having the terminal suddenly in never-never land
is a real pain; to recover you have to go into off-line mode, and reset
the correct modes.
	It turn out that the BIOS is sending characters to the terminal
when it isn't ready to accept them.  At least one gets lost; when the last-
arrived character is an Escape, and its successor is overtaken by another
character, the terminal switches executes a faulty sequence.  For example:

	'ESC k p' --  'ESC k' is restore cursor, 'p' is data
	If 'k' is overtaken, the terminal executes 'ESC p' = reverse video !

	My CONOUT implements hardware handshaking, using the H-89's
8250 serial chip.  I assumed that this, coupled with handshaking by the
H-19 terminal, would prevent dropped characters.  

	NOT SO!! -- because the interrupt routine uses the console output data
port the following sequence of events can and does occur:

	main program sends character to CONOUT
		CONOUT checks clear-to-send line:  it's clear
		now clock interrupts
			saves registers
			clock routine sends a string of characters,
			   filling the terminal buffer
			terminal turns off clear-to-send line: not clear now
			restores registers & returns
		  character sent to terminal (!!)
		  returns to main program
	
	In other words, the real-time status of the CTS line changes from
the time CONOUT reads the line to when it outputs the character.

	Solutions: (1) disable interrupts before reading CTS, enable after
sending the character; have the clock routine use a private version of CONOUT
that doesn't enable interrupts.  (2) Set a flag on entry to CONOUT, reset it
on exit; when flag is set have the clock routine poll CTS until clear before
returning.
	This complexity wouldn't arise if the 8250 had on-chip handshaking
(like the Z-80 SIO) and didn't send out a character until the CTS line
is clear.  I guess the moral is not to trust an interruptible handshake!

	My suspicions that the Super19 ROM was at fault were unfounded, and
I appreciate the time Bob Todd at Extended Technology Systems took to check 
out my questions.  It is indeed a high performance addition to the H-19.
With hardware handshaking and 38.4K baud, text can be redisplayed and edited
very effectively.  
	Now I'm curious to see what the game writers can do with it!
17-Dec-82 20:07:00,3327;000000000000
Date: Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST
To: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc
Subject: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data?
From: bridger at Rand-Unix
Via:  Rand-Unix; 17 Dec 82 23:42-EST
Via:  Brl; 18 Dec 82 0:21-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 0:40-EST

	I've been using a clock/calendar that interrupts once a second and
calls a service routine that sends the current time to the bottom right
corner of the terminal screen.  To do this it sends escape sequences to
save the cursor, position it, and restore it.  The characters are sent
by  BIOS calls to CONOUT.
	Randomly, the terminal would print the time but then fail
to restore the cursor, or switch into reverse video or some other mode.
Things got worse with a new terminal rom (the Super19 ROM for the Heath
H-19) running at 38.4K baud, because this rom has a host of new
escape sequences for extra modes, some of which reinterprete the 
standard ASCII characters.  Having the terminal suddenly in never-never land
is a real pain; to recover you have to go into off-line mode, and reset
the correct modes.
	It turn out that the BIOS is sending characters to the terminal
when it isn't ready to accept them.  At least one gets lost; when the last-
arrived character is an Escape, and its successor is overtaken by another
character, the terminal switches executes a faulty sequence.  For example:

	'ESC k p' --  'ESC k' is restore cursor, 'p' is data
	If 'k' is overtaken, the terminal executes 'ESC p' = reverse video !

	My CONOUT implements hardware handshaking, using the H-89's
8250 serial chip.  I assumed that this, coupled with handshaking by the
H-19 terminal, would prevent dropped characters.  

	NOT SO!! -- because the interrupt routine uses the console output data
port the following sequence of events can and does occur:

	main program sends character to CONOUT
		CONOUT checks clear-to-send line:  it's clear
		now clock interrupts
			saves registers
			clock routine sends a string of characters,
			   filling the terminal buffer
			terminal turns off clear-to-send line: not clear now
			restores registers & returns
		  character sent to terminal (!!)
		  returns to main program
	
	In other words, the real-time status of the CTS line changes from
the time CONOUT reads the line to when it outputs the character.

	Solutions: (1) disable interrupts before reading CTS, enable after
sending the character; have the clock routine use a private version of CONOUT
that doesn't enable interrupts.  (2) Set a flag on entry to CONOUT, reset it
on exit; when flag is set have the clock routine poll CTS until clear before
returning.
	This complexity wouldn't arise if the 8250 had on-chip handshaking
(like the Z-80 SIO) and didn't send out a character until the CTS line
is clear.  I guess the moral is not to trust an interruptible handshake!

	My suspicions that the Super19 ROM was at fault were unfounded, and
I appreciate the time Bob Todd at Extended Technology Systems took to check 
out my questions.  It is indeed a high performance addition to the H-19.
With hardware handshaking and 38.4K baud, text can be redisplayed and edited
very effectively.  
	Now I'm curious to see what the game writers can do with it!
	.


*** Problem during mail receipt from Arpanet ***
17-Dec-82 20:07:00,3328;000000000000
Date: Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST
To: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc
Subject: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data?
From: bridger at Rand-Unix
Via:  Rand-Unix; 17 Dec 82 23:27-EST
Via:  Brl; 17 Dec 82 23:56-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 0:07-EST

	I've been using a clock/calendar that interrupts once a second and
calls a service routine that sends the current time to the bottom right
corner of the terminal screen.  To do this it sends escape sequences to
save the cursor, position it, and restore it.  The characters are sent
by  BIOS calls to CONOUT.
	Randomly, the terminal would print the time but then fail
to restore the cursor, or switch into reverse video or some other mode.
Things got worse with a new terminal rom (the Super19 ROM for the Heath
H-19) running at 38.4K baud, because this rom has a host of new
escape sequences for extra modes, some of which reinterprete the 
standard ASCII characters.  Having the terminal suddenly in never-never land
is a real pain; to recover you have to go into off-line mode, and reset
the correct modes.
	It turn out that the BIOS is sending characters to the terminal
when it isn't ready to accept them.  At least one gets lost; when the last-
arrived character is an Escape, and its successor is overtaken by another
character, the terminal switches executes a faulty sequence.  For example:

	'ESC k p' --  'ESC k' is restore cursor, 'p' is data
	If 'k' is overtaken, the terminal executes 'ESC p' = reverse video !

	My CONOUT implements hardware handshaking, using the H-89's
8250 serial chip.  I assumed that this, coupled with handshaking by the
H-19 terminal, would prevent dropped characters.  

	NOT SO!! -- because the interrupt routine uses the console output data
port the following sequence of events can and does occur:

	main program sends character to CONOUT
		CONOUT checks clear-to-send line:  it's clear
		now clock interrupts
			saves registers
			clock routine sends a string of characters,
			   filling the terminal buffer
			terminal turns off clear-to-send line: not clear now
			restores registers & returns
		  character sent to terminal (!!)
		  returns to main program
	
	In other words, the real-time status of the CTS line changes from
the time CONOUT reads the line to when it outputs the character.

	Solutions: (1) disable interrupts before reading CTS, enable after
sending the character; have the clock routine use a private version of CONOUT
that doesn't enable interrupts.  (2) Set a flag on entry to CONOUT, reset it
on exit; when flag is set have the clock routine poll CTS until clear before
returning.
	This complexity wouldn't arise if the 8250 had on-chip handshaking
(like the Z-80 SIO) and didn't send out a character until the CTS line
is clear.  I guess the moral is not to trust an interruptible handshake!

	My suspicions that the Super19 ROM was at fault were unfounded, and
I appreciate the time Bob Todd at Extended Technology Systems took to check 
out my questions.  It is indeed a high performance addition to the H-19.
With hardware handshaking and 38.4K baud, text can be redisplayed and edited
very effectively.  
	Now I'm curious to see what the game writers can do with it!
	.


*** Problem during mail receipt from Arpanet ***
17-Dec-82 20:07:00,3329;000000000000
Date: Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST
To: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc
Subject: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data?
From: bridger at Rand-Unix
Via:  Rand-Unix; 17 Dec 82 23:07-EST
Via:  Brl; 17 Dec 82 23:23-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 23:36-EST

	I've been using a clock/calendar that interrupts once a second and
calls a service routine that sends the current time to the bottom right
corner of the terminal screen.  To do this it sends escape sequences to
save the cursor, position it, and restore it.  The characters are sent
by  BIOS calls to CONOUT.
	Randomly, the terminal would print the time but then fail
to restore the cursor, or switch into reverse video or some other mode.
Things got worse with a new terminal rom (the Super19 ROM for the Heath
H-19) running at 38.4K baud, because this rom has a host of new
escape sequences for extra modes, some of which reinterprete the 
standard ASCII characters.  Having the terminal suddenly in never-never land
is a real pain; to recover you have to go into off-line mode, and reset
the correct modes.
	It turn out that the BIOS is sending characters to the terminal
when it isn't ready to accept them.  At least one gets lost; when the last-
arrived character is an Escape, and its successor is overtaken by another
character, the terminal switches executes a faulty sequence.  For example:

	'ESC k p' --  'ESC k' is restore cursor, 'p' is data
	If 'k' is overtaken, the terminal executes 'ESC p' = reverse video !

	My CONOUT implements hardware handshaking, using the H-89's
8250 serial chip.  I assumed that this, coupled with handshaking by the
H-19 terminal, would prevent dropped characters.  

	NOT SO!! -- because the interrupt routine uses the console output data
port the following sequence of events can and does occur:

	main program sends character to CONOUT
		CONOUT checks clear-to-send line:  it's clear
		now clock interrupts
			saves registers
			clock routine sends a string of characters,
			   filling the terminal buffer
			terminal turns off clear-to-send line: not clear now
			restores registers & returns
		  character sent to terminal (!!)
		  returns to main program
	
	In other words, the real-time status of the CTS line changes from
the time CONOUT reads the line to when it outputs the character.

	Solutions: (1) disable interrupts before reading CTS, enable after
sending the character; have the clock routine use a private version of CONOUT
that doesn't enable interrupts.  (2) Set a flag on entry to CONOUT, reset it
on exit; when flag is set have the clock routine poll CTS until clear before
returning.
	This complexity wouldn't arise if the 8250 had on-chip handshaking
(like the Z-80 SIO) and didn't send out a character until the CTS line
is clear.  I guess the moral is not to trust an interruptible handshake!

	My suspicions that the Super19 ROM was at fault were unfounded, and
I appreciate the time Bob Todd at Extended Technology Systems took to check 
out my questions.  It is indeed a high performance addition to the H-19.
With hardware handshaking and 38.4K baud, text can be redisplayed and edited
very effectively.  
	Now I'm curious to see what the game writers can do with it!
	.


*** Problem during mail receipt from Arpanet ***
18-Dec-82 08:07:00,438;000000000000
Date: 18 December 1982 10:07-EST
From: Eric O Stork <STORK@Mit-Mc>
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 10:07-EST
Via:  Brl; 18 Dec 82 10:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 10:33-EST

Subject: Startling Statistics Department
,
Regarding the practice of people exchanging software,
BUSINESS COMPUTER SYSTEMS for December 1982, page 11:
,
  "... MicroPro figures it gets paid for only one
   software package in five...."
18-Dec-82 08:10:00,438;000000000000
Date: 18 December 1982 10:10-EST
From: Eric O Stork <STORK@Mit-Mc>
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 10:26-EST
Via:  Brl; 18 Dec 82 10:46-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 11:23-EST

Subject: Startling Statistics Department
,
Regarding the practice of people exchanging software,
BUSINESS COMPUTER SYSTEMS for December 1982, page 11:
,
  "... MicroPro figures it gets paid for only one
   software package in five...."
18-Dec-82 10:02:00,354;000000000000
Date: 18 Dec 1982 at 1102-CST
From: alt at Utexas-11
Subject: Startling Statistics Department
To: STORK at Mit-Mc
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Utexas-11; 18 Dec 82 12:17-EST
Via:  Brl; 18 Dec 82 12:48-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 13:05-EST

Yes, and look how much money they have made from just those!!!
		Howard Alt
		alt@utexas-11

-------
18-Dec-82 12:08:00,544;000000000000
Date:     18 Dec 82 15:08-EDT (Sat)
From:     the Golux <coar.umass@Udel-Relay>
To:       mwm at Okc-Unix
cc:       coar.umass at Udel-Relay, info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay
Subject:  Steve Levitan & Jeff Bonar
Via:  UMASS-ECE; 18 Dec 82 22:23-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 23:35-EST
Via:  Brl; 18 Dec 82 23:49-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 0:01-EST

These two gentlemen are on the net, so you might try
talking to them directly. They are at our sister site.

	levitan@umass-coins
	bonar@umass-coins

Good luck.

	ken
	coar@umass
18-Dec-82 12:08:00,545;000000000000
Date:     18 Dec 82 15:08-EDT (Sat)
From:     the Golux <coar.umass@Udel-Relay>
To:       mwm at Okc-Unix
cc:       coar.umass at Udel-Relay, info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay
Subject:  Steve Levitan & Jeff Bonar
Via:  UMASS-ECE; 18 Dec 82 22:19-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 23:19-EST
Via:  Brl; 18 Dec 82 23:47-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 23:59-EST

These two gentlemen are on the net, so you might try
talking to them directly. They are at our sister site.

	levitan@umass-coins
	bonar@umass-coins

Good luck.

	ken
	coar@umass
18-Dec-82 19:03:00,947;000000000000
Date: 18 December 1982 21:03-EST
From: Allan D Plehn <PLEHN@Mit-Mc>
Subject: 300/1200 baud (103/212a) modem for S-100 Bus
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 21:03-EST
Via:  Brl; 18 Dec 82 21:20-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 22:05-EST

It won't be long now.  PMMI expects to make their new
103/212A s-100 modem available in May.  This info is right from
Craig Brown, a principal in the company.  It will have lots of
nice features like ability to distinguish ringing and busy signals,
DTMF (tone) dialing etc.  The 300 baud part of the modem will not
be the equal of their MM103 modem.  That is, it won't use the
expensive laser-trimmed filter components for the 300 baud section
such as the MM-103 does.  That would make it too expensive to be
competitive.  
If anyone has any ideas in the way of features that they think
should be included in the new modem let me know and I will pass
the info along to Craig at PMMI.
18-Dec-82 21:33:00,292;000000000000
Date: 18 December 1982 23:33-EST
From: Paul L Kelley <PLK@Mit-Mc>
Subject: MODEM796
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 23:32-EST
Via:  Brl; 18 Dec 82 23:49-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 0:00-EST


	The MODEM7 files in AR61:CPM; on MIT-MC have been upgraded to
version 796.
18-Dec-82 23:04:00,686;000000000000
Date:  18 December 1982 23:04 cst
From:  Weinstein.MK541 at Hi-Multics
Subject:  Osborne help needed!
To:  info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Hi-Multics; 19 Dec 82 0:06-EST
Via:  Brl; 19 Dec 82 0:20-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 0:53-EST

I just got a Osborne double density computer and would like to install
the BYE Program , SMODEM, XMODEM. I would greatly appreciate someone
sending the source(for the OSBORNE) with any documentation . The discs
that you send me will be returned within 1 week. Is there a
info-osborne? Anyone have any other programs up on the Osborne worth
discussing?

			Dennis Weinstein
			8324 Kentucky Avenue North
			Minneapolis, MN 55445

thx Dennis.
19-Dec-82 06:36:00,946;000000000000
Date: 19 December 1982 08:36-EST
From: Charlie Strom <CSTROM@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  300/1200 baud (103/212a) modem for S-100 Bus
To: PLEHN at Mit-Mc
cc: Info-CPM at BRL
In-reply-to: The message of 18 Dec 1982 21:03-EST from Allan D Plehn <PLEHN>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 19 Dec 82 8:35-EST
Via:  Brl; 19 Dec 82 8:53-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 9:07-EST

One of the nicest features of the MM-103 is that we can use it up to
600 baud routinely cross-country (and at 710 baud under ideal
conditions.) I infer from your comment that this would no longer be
possible with the new unit if the 103 circuitry is of lower quality.
The MM-103 has become a de-facto standard for RCPM's and others
interested in the dostribution of public domain CP/M software. It
would be a real shame to ignore the installed user base by going off
tangentially with a partially incompatible product if such is the
case, though I can understand the cost considerations.
19-Dec-82 11:37:00,411;000000000000
Date: 19 Dec 1982 1337-EST
From: PGA.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc
Subject: Re: LISP Benchmarks
To: mwm at Okc-Unix
cc: info-cpm at BRL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 18-Dec-82 0411-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 19 Dec 82 13:38-EST
Via:  Brl; 19 Dec 82 13:51-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 14:22-EST

I think I have the benchmarks around somewhere.  I ran them on a Lisp Machine
and on Maclisp for comparison.

PHill
-------
19-Dec-82 18:41:00,759;000000000000
Date: 19 Dec 1982 (Sunday) 2141-EDT
From: PLATTS at Wharton-10 (Steve Platt)
Subject: TECO-like editors
To:   clements at Bbna
cc:   info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Wharton-10; 19 Dec 82 21:39-EST
Via:  Brl; 19 Dec 82 21:57-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 22:19-EST

Computer Design Labs of Trenton NJ puts out a product called
Z-TEL, a fairly powerful TECO-like editor.  It costs around $80,
they advertise in (S-100) Microsystems and some other small
journals.


	Computer Design Labs
	342 Columbus Ave.
	Trenton NJ    tech ques: 609-599-2146
			orders: 800-458-3491  ext. 15

if you have any questions feel free to ask (me directly, unless
you think they're important to the community).  I have been using
~@it for a number of years.

		-steve
19-Dec-82 23:13:00,1446;000000000000
Date: 20 December 1982 01:13-EST
From: Frank J Wancho <FJW@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  [Pleasant: Warning messages from system mailers]
To: INFO-CPM at BRL, INFO-MICRO at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 20 Dec 82 1:11-EST
Via:  Brl; 20 Dec 82 1:26-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 1:30-EST

What Mel says below goes double for Keith and myself in our
maintenance of INFO-MICRO and INFO-CPM.  So, rather than steal Mel's
message and put our names on it as our own, here is the original:

Date: 19 Dec 1982 2114-EST
From: Mel <Pleasant at RUTGERS>
To:   ProtocolS at RUTGERS
Re:   Warning messages from system mailers

Hi Folks,	
	Many times after you send a message to this list, one of the
many system mailers that the message will pass through will inform you
that the mail has yet to be delivered to a recipient on the list.
These are just an informational messages.  Most of the system mailers
are pretty robust and will try several times before giving up.  Please
do not forward informational-type messages to me.  The only time I
need to know about a mailer error is when the entire message is
returned to you with some indication that a system mailer has given up
trying to deliver the mail.  This generally happens when a recipient's
mailbox has been removed (the user is no longer on the system), or the
mailer suffered some sort of catastrophe.  Please continue to let me
know about hard errors.

-thanks
-Mel (ProtocolS Moderator)
20-Dec-82 06:23:00,790;000000000000
Date: 20 December 1982 08:23-EST
From: Eric O Stork <STORK@Mit-Mc>
To: STORK at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 20 Dec 82 8:25-EST
Via:  Brl; 20 Dec 82 9:13-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 9:43-EST

A week or so ago I distributed a compilation of comments I had
received on the net in response to my question about the
relative merits of 'portable' micros.
After that distribution, I received some additional comments.
I have updated the material that was distributed earlier.
However, to avoid cluttering everyone's mailbox with
a long file that the may not want, I'm sending this announcement
of its availability.  It can be FTPd from MIT-MC guest4;stork portbl
or you can send me a message and I'll send it direct to your
address.
EOStork 12/20/82 (STORK at MIT-MC)
20-Dec-82 09:05:00,1385;000000000000
Date: 20 Dec 1982 1105-EST (Monday)
From: dudley at Nadc
Subject: CPM TECO
To: clements at Bbna
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Nadc; 20 Dec 82 11:23-EST
Via:  Brl; 20 Dec 82 12:04-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 13:46-EST

        A much better TECO (i.e. more faithful to  the  DEC  ver-
sion) is called TED and available from:
        Small Systems Design
        P.O. Box 4596
        Manchester, N.H.
        03108

        This version is about $150 but well worth it if you  also
use  TECO  on  a DEC machine, since it will not screw you up with
slightly changed commands. For example, the CDL  Z-Tel  uses  'y'
for verify instead of 'v'.  Obviously this could really screw you
up if you do lots of things like:  <sfred$;3dibob$v>$$.  ('y'  is
meant  to  be 'yank' the next buffer full.)  Also the SSD TED has
available a macro that does screen editing on a H89 (VT52) (simi-
lar  to  the  screen editor macro that DEC gives away).  TED also
comes with a macro to  convert  Intel  8080  mnemonics  to  Zilog
mnemonics  (I  have  modified  mine  to also do TDL (oops, I mean
'CDL') mnemonics as well).
        I can't say enough good about TED as an editor.   I  have
no connection with SSD or CDL whatsoever.
					-- dud
p.s. If you do write a TECO, please include regular expressions like
Unix's 'ed' has.  That's the only shortcoming TECO has.
-------
20-Dec-82 12:59:00,600;000000000000
Date: 20 Dec 1982 12:59 EST
From: Thieret.WBST at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Re: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data?
In-reply-to: bridger's message of Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST
To: bridger at Rand-Unix
cc: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc
Via:  Parc-Maxc; 20 Dec 82 12:55-EST
Via:  Brl; 20 Dec 82 14:03-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 14:28-EST

Please tell me something about the Super19 ROM for the H-19 terminal.  Where
can I get one ?  What does it do that is so great? How much is it?  If it really
helps (allows >9600 baud) I'm really interested.  Thanks.

Tracy Thieret
20-Dec-82 15:12:39,4496;000000000000
Date:     20 Dec 82 17:12:39-EST (Mon)
From:     Michael Muuss <mike@BRL>
To:       pourne at Mit-Mc, anton.Hcr at BRL, info-cpm at BRL
cc:       Gurus at BRL
Subject:  On UUCP <-> ARPA Mail Traffic
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 17:22-EST
Via:  Brl; 20 Dec 82 17:46-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 17:52-EST

"The ARPANET is an operational DoD network and is not intended to compete with
comparable commercial service.  Accordingly, before ARPANET service is
provided to any non-U.S. Government activity, it must be determined that
adequate comercial service is not available."

"The ARPANET is intended to be used solely for the conduct of or in support
of official U.S. Government business.  ...use of the ARPANET must not violate
any applicable privacy laws."  [pg. 12, ARPANET Directory]

"If it is possible to gain access to the ARPANET from another network
(gateway) ..., it is the respnosibility of that host to provide software
protection which will permit only authorized ARPANET users to access
the network."  [pg 18, ARPANET Directory]

The only reason we are able to provide any kind of relaying service AT ALL
is because of a ambiuity of wording in the regulations governing the
use of the ArpaNet.  Basically, they say that outside users can not
ORIGINATE traffic on the net, but say nothing about outsiders getting
COPIES of things sent on the net.  So, our mail gateway software implements
this policy, with one special case.  It works like this:

*)  Mail sent from ARPANET to any of our other networks is passed.

*)  Mail sent from any other network to ARPANET is rejected, with explanation.

*)  Mail sent from any other network to a MAIL FORWARDER on our machine is
    DELIVERED, regardless as to where it forwards to.  Hence, mailing to
		...!brl-bmd!info-cpm@mit-ai
    is rejected, as it asks for explicit routing to ARPANET, where as
		...!brl-bmd!info-cpm
    is DELIVERED, because we automatically forward mail for that list.

Believe me, I wish this was not so, but we have to play by the rules.
Otherwise...  "If corrective action is not taken in a reasonable time,
DCA reserves the right to disconnect the host/terminal from the network."
[pg 14, ARPANET Directory]

If you wish to further discuss this issue, the proper forum is in the
TCP-IP Digest ("The InterNet Digest").  It is fed into NETNEWS as net.tcp-ip;
ArpaNet viewers may request direct mailing by sending a request to
	TCP-IP-REQUEST @ BRL

Letters for publication in the digest should be sent to
	TCP-IP @ BRL

			Network Liaison and Host Administrator of BRL-BMD,
			 -Mike Muuss

PS:  Attached is an automatic rejection notice, and a letter on this subject.


----- Forwarded message # 1:

Date:     18 Dec 1982 22:13-EST (Sat)
From:     Memo Service (MMDF) <mmdf@BRL-BMD>
To:       anton@hcr
Cc:       Gurus@Brl-Bmd
Subject:  Illegal Address (pourne@mit-mc)
Via:  (decvax); 18 Dec 82 22:14-EST

	Your letter has been intercepted trying to access
a restricted access host (e.g. an ARPANET host).  A copy
of your letter has been sent to the system administrators.
The text of your letter follows.

  --------------- Returned Mail Follows --------------
>From hcr!anton Fri Dec 17 11:47:45 1982 remote from decvax
Date: Fri Dec 17 11:01:15 1982
To: decvax!brl-bmd!pourne@mit-mc, info-cpm@BRL
Subject: somebody gotta DO something
Cc: rrg, utcsrgv!utcsstat!geoff, utzoo!henry

I have just got a nasty letter from an automatic mailer telling me
I have been reported for attempting to breach the security system
of ARPAnet.  All I did was reply to dave Flystra's note about
sending all new members of the info-cpm list a idots guide to
things like being taken off the list.

I very much resent being accused of trying to break a secure system
when all I did was use the unix mailer's 'r' command.

Yes, Jerry, this junk about routing is getting pernicious. 
IT MUST BE STOPPED. Abouyt 30% of my network replies are getting sent back now.
The only simple way out seems to be have ARPA and usenet seperate and
have all of usenet that relays news FORCED to relay mail.  System
administrators won't like that, so we will probably need intelligent mailers,
which means everyone has to keep their tables up to date.

Sigh !

/anton aylward  Human Computing Resources.  Toronto.

(p.s. I hope this DOES get through....)



  --------------- End of Returned Mail ---------------

----- End of forwarded messages
20-Dec-82 16:41:00,499;000000000000
Date: Monday, 20 December 1982  18:41-EST
Sender: RG.JMTURN.MIT-OZ at BRL
From: RG.JMTURN at Mit-Mc
To:   info-cpm at BRL
Subject: CPM TECO
In-reply-to: The message of 20 Dec 1982 1105-EST () from dudley at Nadc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 20 Dec 82 18:54-EST
Via:  Brl; 20 Dec 82 19:17-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 19:54-EST

Please remember that Emacs is based around RMS's hacked version of
TECO, and someone's DEC flavored CP/M TECO will not run Emacs without
extensive modifications.
				James
20-Dec-82 22:08:00,585;000000000000
Date: 21 Dec 1982 0008-EST
From: ELIOT at Mit-Dms (Eliot Scott Ramey)
To: info-cpm at BRL
Subject: VT180 & PIPMOD
Message-id: <[MIT-DMS].253107>
Via:  Mit-Dms; 22 Dec 82 9:57-EST
Via:  Brl; 22 Dec 82 10:36-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 10:59-EST


	A friend is trying to get PIPMOD to work on a VT180.  As far
as he can tell, DEC did not document where the ports are.
The information I need is, what should these following equates
be set to:

MDAT	EQU	?
MSTAT	EQU	?
RCV	EQU	?
RCVT	EQU	?

Any help at all will be greatly appreciated.  HELP!

					-Eliot at Mit-DM
21-Dec-82 01:21:19,1610;000000000000
Date:     21 Dec 82 01:21:19 EST  (Tue)
From:     Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay>
Subject:  Re:  source code?
To:       Herb Lin <LIN@Mit-Mc>
Cc:       info-cpm at BRL
Via:  UCF-CS; 21 Dec 82 3:58-EST
Via:  Udel-Relay; 21 Dec 82 7:12-EST
Via:  Brl; 21 Dec 82 7:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 7:58-EST

CP/M's standard distribution from DRI includes a BIOS source for MDS-80.
DRI does not distribute source for the "proprietary modules" (i.e., CCP
and BDOS) since these are the heart of the system.  But the BIOS is a
different matter because it is the interface to the hardware of the
target system.  If all we had to run CP/M on were out of the box TRS-80's
or the like, then we wouldn't even need BIOS source.

Even the systems of a particular hardware merchant come in different
flavors, so rather than try to cover all possible contingencies in a
single BIOS (which is what Heath has tried to do), the BIOS distributed
with such systems usually is a "greatest common subset" variety;  the
source is necessary if the user is to do any customization or  add
any new hardware.  Some CP/M's like the old Lifeboat-Northstar CP/M
are distributed BIOS source for only the portion not related to disk
I/O -- I guess they think there is something about disk drivers
that is magic and needs to be protected.  

Think of what one would have to go through if each time he added a 
new component to his system, say a new serial interface, he had to go
to the place where he bought his copy of CP/M and ask the proprietor
for an update with the new hardware routines!
					Ben
21-Dec-82 09:39:10,489;000000000000
Date: 21-Dec-82 08:39:10-PST (Tue)
From: helge at Ucb-C70 (Helge Skrivervik)
Subject: address search: Paul Kelly @ lincoln Lab
Message-Id: <8211211639.28849@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A28845; 21-Dec-82 08:39:17-PST (Tue)
To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 21 Dec 82 11:39-EST
Via:  Brl; 21 Dec 82 12:24-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 12:33-EST

Anyone who knows the mail address of Paul Kelly at Lincoln Lab??
Thanx
-helge
21-Dec-82 12:02:00,693;000000000000
Date: 21 Dec 1982 1102-PST
From: Dick <Mead@Usc-Eclb>
Subject: USER # in BIOS
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Usc-Eclb; 21 Dec 82 14:00-EST
Via:  Brl; 21 Dec 82 14:51-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 16:06-EST

I ahve seen this mentioned a couple times, and have seen the problem
on all the CP/M system I have used. When working in other that USER 0
if a warm boot is done, you get forced back to USER 0.
Could any of the CP/M wizards please show a good method to have the
bios handle the USER #, in the warmboot or disksel area I assume.
Does it simply entail grabbing the USER # from the page zero location
and saving it, then restoring on warmboot? Examples please...Thanks..
-------
21-Dec-82 12:31:16,309;000000000000
Date: 21-Dec-82 12:31:16 EST (Tuesday)
From: lwilliams.HENR at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Please take my name off this distribution list
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
cc:  lwilliams at Parc-Maxc
Via:  Parc-Maxc; 21 Dec 82 13:17-EST
Via:  Brl; 21 Dec 82 14:38-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 16:02-EST

Thanks.

laurin
21-Dec-82 16:55:00,414;000000000000
Date: 21 Dec 1982 1555-PST
Sender: TBOWERMAN at Office-10
Subject: Re: address search: Paul Kelly @ lincoln Lab
From: TBOWERMAN at Office-10
To: helge at Ucb-C70
Cc: info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Message-ID: <[OFFICE-10]21-Dec-82 15:55:57.TBOWERMAN>
In-Reply-To: <8211211639.28849@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 21 Dec 82 18:54-EST
Via:  Brl; 21 Dec 82 19:05-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 19:11-EST

GP82@LL
21-Dec-82 17:31:00,804;000000000000
Date: Tuesday, 21 December 1982  19:31-EST
Sender: EB.MIT-OZ at BRL
From: EB at Mit-Mc
To:   Michael Muuss <mike@BRL>
Cc:   anton.Hcr at BRL, Gurus at BRL, pourne at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at Mit-Mc
Subject: On UUCP <-> ARPA Mail Traffic
In-reply-to: The message of 20 Dec 82 17:12:39-EST (Mon) from Michael Muuss <mike at BRL>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 21 Dec 82 19:33-EST
Via:  Brl; 21 Dec 82 19:57-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 20:06-EST


This message offers no excuse at all for the obnoxious feature whereby
the automatic rejection mechanism sends a copy of a message to the
system administrators.  Once they have set up an automatic policy
system administrators have no need and certainly no right to get
automatic copies of mail that is not addressed to them; that is a
gross invasion of privacy.
21-Dec-82 22:52:07,1384;000000000000
Date:     22 Dec 82 0:52:07-EST (Wed)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       Dick <Mead@Usc-Eclb>
cc:       info-cpm at BRL
Subject:  Re:  USER # in BIOS
Via:  Brl; 22 Dec 82 1:05-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 1:22-EST

Dick,

	The problem you describe lies in the Warm Boot routine within the
BIOS.  Whenever the CCP is entered via either the Warm or Cold Boot routines
in the BIOS, the user/disk flag is carried to it in the C register.

	I do not have the problem you describe.  Warm Boots return me to
the user/disk I was logged into.  My BIOS code in the Warm and Cold Boots
which does this is:

COLD BOOT:
	cbdisk	equ	0	;enter user 0 (high 4 bits), disk A
				; (low 4 bits) on Cold Boot (Startup)
	cdisk	equ	4H	;address of user/disk flag on Page 0
	...
	mvi	a,cbdisk	;select default user/disk
	sta	cdisk		;set user/disk flag
	...
	jmp	gocpm
WARM BOOT:
	...
	jmp	gocpm		;Warm Boot reloads CCP and BDOS
GOCPM:
	...			;Init:
	...			;  JMP at 0, JMP at 5, others
	lda	cdisk		;get current user/disk flag
	mov	c,a		;... in C for CCP entry
	...
	jmp	ccp		;enter CCP with user/disk in C

	In this type of environment, I have the flexibility of setting
cbdisk to anything I want, such as 21H to come up in user 2 on drive B
when I cold boot or 0A0H to come up in user 10 on drive A on cold boot.

	Hope this answers your question.

		Rick
21-Dec-82 23:04:00,573;000000000000
Date: 22 December 1982 01:04-EST
From: "James Lewis Bean, Jr." <BEAN@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  Any TECOs out there?
To: CLEMENTS at Bbna
cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc
In-reply-to: The message of 17 Dec 1982 1242-EST from Bob Clements <CLEMENTS@Bbna>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 22 Dec 82 1:06-EST
Via:  Brl; 22 Dec 82 1:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 1:37-EST

There was an editor phoenix sofware associates ( I don't remember
the name) that claimed to be very teco like with multiple buffers, and
command macros...Call lifeboat they used to sell it.

						lewis
						bean at mit-mc
22-Dec-82 01:00:10,3649;000000000000
Date:     22 Dec 82 3:00:10-EST (Wed)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL
Subject:  ZCPR2 Release Schedule and Other Info
Via:  Brl; 22 Dec 82 3:23-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 3:39-EST

Hi --

        With all the interest expressed in ZCPR2  over  the  past
few months, I thought you would be interested in what the current
release schedule is.  ZCPR2 is rapidly nearing completion, and it
currently  looks  like  the  following schedule of events will be
realized:

                31 Dec -- Release of Draft Documentation on ZCPR2
                        and its utilities on MIT-MC

                1-9 Jan -- Final Testing of Utilities; ZCPR2 has
                        already been thoroughly tested as of 22 Dec,
                        and one more minor mod is planned followed
                        by a few more tests, but the current bottle-
                        neck is with the utilities

                10 Jan -- Release of all selected utilities and ZCPR2
                        itself to MIT-MC and SIG/M (note:  it will take
                        SIG/M a little while to place ZCPR2 into the
                        system)

                11-14 Jan -- Fielding initial questions from INFO-CPM

                21-23 Jan -- CPM 83 Conference in San Francisco; I'll
                        be making a presentation on ZCPR2 as part of
                        Sol Libes session on Public Domain Software

                27 Jan -- (still in planning stages and subject to
                        cancellation) Micro Conf at Ft Leavenworth, KS,
                        where I may be making another presentation on
                        ZCPR2, SYSLIB, ARPA Net Communication via Micros,
                        and other topics

                4 Feb -- Presentation on ZCPR2 and SYSLIB at ACG-NJ
                        SIG/M meeting


        Status:

                1.  ZCPR2 itself is up and  running  very  nicely
now  at  all the Beta Test Sites.  One very minor mod is planned,
but no problem at all is expected wrt the release date.

                2.  ZCPR2 utilities will be undergoing Beta Test-
ing  right up to the release.  Most are performing as they should
be so far, and no problem is anticipated in meeting  the  release
date on approx 90% of the utilities.  The other 10% are still un-
dergoing some design changes and bug fixes.  There will  probably
be about 30 utility programs released with ZCPR2.

                3.  A Draft of the documentation will be released
for  those  interested in early information on ZCPR2 and for com-
ments from those who wish to in case they have some major  hangup
about  an  aspect  of the documentation before the release.  This
will hopefully catch some problems which may be faced  by  people
seeing  ZCPR2  the  first time before the actual release is done.
Four manuals and a series of Help files on  ZCPR2  are  currently
planned.   The  Concepts  Manual  (currently at 50+ pages) covers
basic ZCPR2 ideas and explains the philosophy of use of ZCPR2 and
the  Installation  Manual (currently at 20+ pages) gives detailed
installation instructions and examples.  Both  of  these  manuals
are  well  along.  The other two, namely the Rationale and User's
Guide, are less well along but I hope they will also be ready  on
time.

        Those interested in obtaining ZCPR2 or  more  information
on ZCPR2 are invited to subscribe to INFO-CPM.  Due to the nature
of INFO-MICRO, further release data to it is not planned.

                Rick
22-Dec-82 02:55:00,1006;000000000000
Date:     22 Dec 82 02:55:00 EST  (Wed)
From:     Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay>
Subject:  Cleaning disk drive heads
To:       info-cpm at BRL
Via:  UCF-CS; 22 Dec 82 3:39-EST
Via:  Udel-Relay; 22 Dec 82 5:04-EST
Via:  Brl; 22 Dec 82 5:24-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 5:32-EST

Recently, Jerry asked for info about how to load the heads on his disk
drive in order to clean them.  While I don't have a program that does
it, it got me thinking about another rumor versus fact brouhaha that
has not yet been clarified to my satisfaction:  is it necessary or
desirable to clean heads?  I have heard both sides of the story:  1)
the oxide buildup on floppy disk heads is harmful, causing excess wear
and unreliable data transfers, and 2) cleaning the heads is an
excessively abrasive procedure that shortens their life.

I'd like to get some opinions on the above, if not hard data.

					Ben Goldfarb 
					ARPA: goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay
					uucp: ...!duke!ucf-cs!goldfarb
22-Dec-82 08:35:00,1047;000000000000
Date: 22 Dec 1982 08:35 PST
From: Eldridge.ES at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Re: USER # in BIOS
In-reply-to: Mead's message of 21 Dec 1982 1102-PST
To: Dick <Mead@Usc-Eclb>
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Parc-Maxc; 22 Dec 82 11:40-EST
Via:  Brl; 22 Dec 82 12:17-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 12:50-EST

The error you describe is common to many CBIOS implementations and is an
annoying bug.  The proper solution is to save the value at location 4 and use it
as the currently logged drive on a warm boot.  Location 4 contains both the
current logged-in drive and the user number.  The warm boot routine should
save location 4, read in the CCP, then put the saved location 4 value into the C
reg and jump to the CCP.

Another idea I have been toying with is to run a checksum on the CCP
whenever a warm boot is requested, and only load the CCP if it has been over-
written.  This would have the advantage that ^C would log-in a new disk even
if the disk did not have CP/M on it (providing, of course, that the CCP was still
intact).

George
22-Dec-82 09:29:00,617;000000000000
Date: 22 December 1982 1129-EST (Wednesday)
From: Ed.DeHart at Cmu-Cs-A
To: Info-CPM at BRL
Subject: After Jan. 1
Message-Id: <22Dec82 112902 ED80@CMU-CS-A>
Via:  Cmu-Cs-A; 22 Dec 82 11:22-EST
Via:  Brl; 22 Dec 82 11:48-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 12:13-EST

I haven't noticed any plans for moving the Info-CP/M software archive off of
MIT-MC.  I just read a message about the new ZCPR which will be available on
MIT-MC after Jan. 1.   Is MIT-MC going to be on the net?   Is this a TCP
site?   The last thing that I had heard was that the ITS systems would not be
on the net as TCP hosts.

Ed DeHart
22-Dec-82 09:59:10,308;000000000000
Date: 22-Dec-82  9:59:10 PST (Wednesday)
From: Hankins at Parc-Maxc
Subject: Please take my name also off this distribution list 
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
cc: Hankins at Parc-Maxc
Via:  Parc-Maxc; 22 Dec 82 12:54-EST
Via:  Brl; 22 Dec 82 14:09-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 14:14-EST


thanks

brenda
22-Dec-82 10:35:00,1049;000000000000
Date: 22 Dec 1982 0935-PST
Sender: BILLW at Sri-Kl
Subject: Re:  Cleaning disk drive heads
From: BILLW at Sri-Kl
To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay
Cc: info-cpm at BRL
Message-ID: <[SRI-KL]22-Dec-82 09:35:06.BILLW>
In-Reply-To: Your message of     22 Dec 82 02:55:00 EST  (Wed)
Via:  Sri-Kl; 22 Dec 82 12:30-EST
Via:  Brl; 22 Dec 82 13:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 13:31-EST

There was an article on disk drive care in the latest (dec?)
issue of KILOBAUD microcomputing magazine.  It seems that:

a) It is a good idea to clean your heads and worm gears and things
   every once in a while from a preformance point fo view... This
   is why head cleaning kits exist.  Their manufacturers say heads
   should be cleaned every couple weeks.

b) About 80% of disk drives returned to xxx for repairs were broken
   by users who were atempting to clean/do other preventitive maintainance
   on them.  This is why disk manufacturers recomend against head cleaning.

Head cleaning does not usually involve any abrasives.

BillW
23-Dec-82 00:08:00,545;000000000000
Date: 23 December 1982 02:08-EST
From: Herb Lin <LIN@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  getting rid of unwanted msgs?
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 2:08-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 2:24-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 2:45-EST

there was a discussion of how to get rid of useless header lines.  The answer was, Use BABYL.  I did, and it's great.  now, a
harder question:  how can I get BABYL to

	(a) get rid of msgs from COMSAT, and
	(b) just display the wanted header lines, and then pause to
		either delete or continue.

many thanks.
23-Dec-82 00:59:00,353;000000000000
Date: 23 December 1982 02:59-EST
From: Herb Lin <LIN@Mit-Mc>
Subject:   ZCPR?
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 2:58-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 3:10-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 3:58-EST


given the name of zcpr, this question may be silly, or just maybe
hopeful.  will zcpr run on an 8085?  (as in an 8085/8088 dual processor board)
23-Dec-82 01:02:00,681;000000000000
Date: 23 December 1982 03:02-EST
From: Paul L Kelley <PLK@Mit-Mc>
Subject: TELL
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 3:01-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 3:24-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 3:59-EST


	The file TELL.ASM is in AR11:CPM; on MIT-MC as TELL ASM.
It was written by Howard Moulton and to quote the author:

	"This is a utility that tells you where
	 your CCP starts, what your BDOS entry
	 address is, and where your CBIOS jump
	 table begins, as well as other useful
	 info."

The "other useful info" is the list of addresses in the jump table
together with a very brief description of each routine's purpose.
Makes nice hard copy for reference use.
23-Dec-82 01:02:00,954;000000000000
Date: 23 December 1982 03:02-EST
From: Ken Harrenstien <KLH@Mit-Mc>
Subject: [Ed.DeHart: After Jan. 1]
To: Info-CPM at BRL
cc: GZ at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 3:01-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 3:24-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 4:00-EST

    Date: 22 December 1982 1129-EST (Wednesday)
    From: Ed.DeHart at Cmu-Cs-A
    To:   Info-CPM at BRL
    Re:   After Jan. 1

    I haven't noticed any plans for moving the Info-CP/M software archive off of
    MIT-MC.  I just read a message about the new ZCPR which will be available on
    MIT-MC after Jan. 1.   Is MIT-MC going to be on the net?   Is this a TCP
    site?   The last thing that I had heard was that the ITS systems would not be
    on the net as TCP hosts.

    Ed DeHart

MIT-MC (and the other ITS systems) will be on the net, as TCP hosts.
I have been doing the software for this (and announced it several times).
Where did you hear that this was not true?

--Ken
23-Dec-82 02:22:00,874;000000000000
Date: 23 December 1982 04:22-EST
From: Gail Zacharias <GZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject: getting rid of unwanted msgs?
To: LIN at Mit-Mc
cc: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 4:21-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 4:47-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 4:55-EST

You can control COMSAT messages by specifying the "R:" or "REGISTERED:" field
when sending mail from Babyl.  This is followed by one letter: A means COMSAT
will send receipts when mail is sent, queued or failed, F means send receipts
for failed mail only, N means return no receipts at all. By default, COMSAT
sends receipts for queued or failed mail (sort of in between A and F).

Note that this only applies to COMSAT (ITS mailer) receipts. You might still
get rejection or queued notices from other mailers.  Also it only works for
mail sent from ITS, since COMSAT will not parse foreign headers for this field.
23-Dec-82 03:38:00,986;000000000000
Date: 23 December 1982 05:38-EST
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  On UUCP <-> ARPA Mail Traffic
To: mike at BRL
cc: POURNE at Mit-Mc, anton.Hcr at BRL, Gurus at BRL, Info-Cpm at BRL
In-reply-to: The message of 21 Dec 1982  19:31-EST from EB
Via:  Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 5:37-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 5:53-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 6:02-EST

If what you say is true then why are CSNET people allowed to send and
receive mail to Arpanet?  It seems to me that Arpa has benefited
GREATLY from information supplied by non-Arpa people through these
gateways.  Someone needs to re-examine the "official position".  That
automatic gateway rejection shouldn't be there.  It's not on UCB-C70.
It seems to me that this is one person's interpretation of the
regulations.  If you want to take them seriously, then shut down the
UCB-C70 and CSNET gateways.  But if you do, you'll shut off a valuable
resource.  I don't think the management would appreciate that at all.
23-Dec-82 08:46:20,1857;000000000000
Date:     23 Dec 82 08:46:20 EST  (Thu)
From:     Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay>
Subject:  Re:  ZCPR?
To:       Herb Lin <LIN@Mit-Mc>
Cc:       info-cpm at BRL
Via:  UCF-CS; 23 Dec 82 20:45-EST
Via:  Udel-Relay; 23 Dec 82 20:44-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 21:08-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 21:20-EST

ZCPR makes use of Z80 relative jumps, LDIR's, and some other assorted
Z80 instructions which won't execute on the 8085.  As soon as I
installed the Godbout dual processor in my system, I realized how much
I relied on ZCPR, so I hacked it to run on the 8085.

Since the program assembles under MAC, the authors used macros to
generate the Z80 opcodes.  I merely added a block move subroutine and
hacked the macros to generate 8085 instructions.  This results in an
increase in size primarily because of the tradeoff between two byte
JR's and three byte JMP's, so I had to eliminate some of the features,
namely JUMP and Go, plus optional hexadecimal constants.  I had never
used these features, so there wasn't any problem.

The big advantage of ZCPR, in my opinion, is that executable files can
reside in a "home" directory which will be searched no matter where you
are currently logged in (i.e., drive and user number).  Beyond that,
the expanded features are nice conveniences that replace some transient
utilities and make life with CP/M systems generally more enjoyable.

As I mentioned above, the hack is simple, but if anyone wants to save
the trouble of doing it themselves, I'd be glad to supply it to them if
they send me a self-addressed, stamped envelope, along with a disk.  If
you notify me by mail, I'll give you the address.  Alternatively,
someone could upload it to MC, but I can't FTP from here.

				Ben Goldfarb
				ARPA:  goldfarb.ucf-cs @ UDel-Relay
				uucp:  ...!duke!ucf-cs!goldfarb
23-Dec-82 10:20:00,1497;000000000000
Date: 23 December 1982 12:20-EST
From: Stephen C Hill <Steveh@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  CP/M Systems Programming books
To: FJW at Mit-Mc, RCONN at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 12:17-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 13:04-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 13:16-EST

I have just picked up a very good book that describes CP/M from
the systems programmer's viewpoint.  It is called:
	Mastering CP/M
	by Alan R. Miller
	published by Sybex
	ISBN 0-89588-068-7
	$15.95 at my local B. Dalton's

I have been looking for a book about CP/M that goes into much
greater detail than " To copy a file, use PIP a:=file.com".  I
have sought information about the guts of the operating system,
with hints about writing (or at least modifying) a BIOS, etc.
This book seems to address that problem.  Chapters are:
	1.	CP/M Organization and Operation
	2.	Duplicating and Altering CP/M Disks
	3.	Adding Features to BIOS
	4.	Beginning a Macro Library
	5.	Using BDOS for Nondisk Operations
	6.	Reading Disk Files With BDOS
	7.	Writing Disk Files With BDOS
	8.	The CP/M Disk Directory
	Appendices with the ubiqutous ASCII character set, 64K
memory map, 8080 and Z80 instruction sets, and a very handy,
one-page (albeit printed on two pages) listing of all of the
BDOS calls, with requisite register usage.

This may not be as replete with arcane anecdotes as an IBM
manual, but it is very readable, presents useful projects (like
implementing the IOBYTE) and generally is a good book.
23-Dec-82 11:46:00,681;000000000000
Date: 23 Dec 1982 1046-PST
Sender: BILLW at Sri-Kl
Subject: Re:  getting rid of unwanted msgs?
From: BILLW at Sri-Kl
To: LIN at Mit-Mc
Cc: info-cpm at BRL
Message-ID: <[SRI-KL]23-Dec-82 10:46:10.BILLW>
In-Reply-To: Your message of 23 December 1982 02:08-EST
Via:  Sri-Kl; 23 Dec 82 13:55-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 14:33-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 15:04-EST

for tenex/tops20 sites, HERMES from BBN also alows you to get rid
of unwanted header lines, and you can say things like:

>delete .:lastmessage/from mailer

A generally wonderful piece of software, as long as youre not paying
for your computer time...  (HERMES is available frlom BBN, somehow)

BillW
23-Dec-82 15:25:00,613;000000000000
Date: Thursday, 23 December 1982  17:25-EST
Sender: RG.JMTURN.MIT-OZ at BRL
From: RG.JMTURN at Mit-Mc
To:   INFO-CPM at BRL
Subject: [Ed.DeHart: After Jan. 1]
Via:  Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 17:27-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 17:55-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 18:06-EST

In theory, OZ has been taking over some of the ITS archives
in SRC:<COMMON>. How much data are we talking about? If its
reasonable, it might go in SRC:<COMMON.CPM> (or some such);
subject to approval by the powers that be. OZ should go on
the net sometime soon (of course, this has been said for
3 months, so caveat emptor...)
				James
23-Dec-82 16:10:00,1063;000000000000
Date: 23 December 1982 18:10-EST
From: Michael C Adler <MADLER@Mit-Ml>
Subject: SPELL v2.0
To: Info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Ml; 23 Dec 82 18:09-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 18:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 18:49-EST

A new verion of SPELL, the utility designed to locate spelling errors
in documents, is complete.  Aside from a number of bug fixes, it allows
more flexible use of user dictionaries (specified on the command line
now).

Thanks to those who suggested modifications!

If you already have SPELL, you won't need to retrieve many files, as the
dictionary has not changed.  New files are:

MIT-MC:AR59:CPM;
		SPELL	20COM	<-- executable version of SPELL
		SPELL	20DOC	<-- new documentation
		SPELL	20HEX	<-- hex version of SPELL 20COM, generated
				    by the CPM;HEXIFY program at MC.
		SPELL	20MAC	<-- SPELL source code.

All of the other files remain unchanged.

Comments, complaints, bug reports gladly accepted.
-Michael

P.S.  For those of you who are curious, the dictionary stores about 40,000
words in 56K of memory.
23-Dec-82 20:35:00,572;000000000000
Date: 23 December 1982 22:35-EST
From: Leor Zolman <LEOR@Mit-Mc>
Subject: Osborne I/O ports
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 22:32-EST
Via:  Brl; 23 Dec 82 22:57-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 23:12-EST

Hi-- A friend of mine has an Osborne and is going ape trying to figure out
how the I/O ports do their thing (with regards to parity stripping, etc.).
If there's anyone out there who can offer help, please call Duncan Apthorp,
(617) 625-9135. I thought I saw something about an Osborne mailing list, but
I don't know where it is...thanks,
	-leor
24-Dec-82 01:15:00,789;000000000000
Date: 24 December 1982 03:15-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  ZCPR?
To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay
cc: LIN at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL
In-reply-to: The message of 23 Dec 82 08:46:20 EST  (Thu) from Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 24 Dec 82 3:12-EST
Via:  Brl; 24 Dec 82 3:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 3:45-EST

One of these days I will have to send a disk.  Meantime I
talkeed to Godbout and that BIOS may be available soon.

Query: do you know precisely how I can download from ITS?  That
is, I have a system (MITE) trhat will capture files, even binary
files; but I do not know what commands will cause the ITS
systems to begin sending them in a continuous stream.
	Perhaps you are the wrong one to ask?

Best JEP
24-Dec-82 02:43:00,652;000000000000
Date: 24 December 1982 04:43-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  aaarrrrgghhh!
To: POURNE at Mit-Mc
cc: LIN at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL, goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay
In-reply-to: The message of 24 Dec 1982 03:15-EST from Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 24 Dec 82 4:39-EST
Via:  Brl; 24 Dec 82 5:01-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 5:05-EST

My apologies to the info-cpm list.  I am unused to babyl and
apparently I am not always able to seen when copies of stuff go
to the whole list when they were intended only for a couple of
people privately.
	ah, well.  maybe I will learn.

thanks for the patience,

jep
24-Dec-82 07:45:00,1107;000000000000
Date: 24 Dec 1982 0645-PST
From: LHILL at Usc-Eclb
Subject: New user
To:   info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Usc-Eclb; 24 Dec 82 9:38-EST
Via:  Brl; 24 Dec 82 9:58-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 10:02-EST

As a new CP/M user and new to ARPANET I need a little help.
I have all the MIT-MC directories obtained with FTP - and the
expanse in remarkable. I would like to have (wouldn't
we all) a good editor-assembler, disassembler, wordprocesser as
a minimum starting set. Are there any good ones in the list.
   Knowing the names (and MIT devices) won't ,however do
it for me as I don't know how to download non-ASCII files.
I am a long time TRS80 MOD I user with LDOS system. This
has an excellant comm pgm 'LCOMM' but it can only handle ASCII.
I have downloaded .BIN files from ComPuServe with the program
MNETA (written by, I believe, Les Mikespell). I have MMODEM7
but have not as yet used it as my MAX80 has just arrived.
   Would someone please recommend some good programs to start
with and give me instructions as to how to download .COM files.
					Lem Hill
					LHILL at USC-ECLB
-------
24-Dec-82 08:34:00,698;000000000000
Date:     24 Dec 82 11:34-EDT (Fri)
From:     the Golux <coar.umass@Udel-Relay>
To:       info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay
cc:       coar.umass at Udel-Relay
Subject:  VT180
Via:  UMASS-ECE; 24 Dec 82 20:47-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 24 Dec 82 20:56-EST
Via:  Brl; 24 Dec 82 21:32-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 21:44-EST

Does anyone out there use a DEC VT180? And, if so, would
they care to express opinions on it? I have heard about
them, but no details; and it would be a good thing for me
(if they are any good), since I already have a VT100...

Any opinions sent to me will be consolidated and sent here
if there is enough in the way of responses.

Thanx.

	ken
	coar.umass@udel-relay
24-Dec-82 08:34:00,698;000000000000
Date:     24 Dec 82 11:34-EDT (Fri)
From:     the Golux <coar.umass@Udel-Relay>
To:       info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay
cc:       coar.umass at Udel-Relay
Subject:  VT180
Via:  UMASS-ECE; 24 Dec 82 20:51-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 24 Dec 82 20:57-EST
Via:  Brl; 24 Dec 82 21:32-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 21:45-EST

Does anyone out there use a DEC VT180? And, if so, would
they care to express opinions on it? I have heard about
them, but no details; and it would be a good thing for me
(if they are any good), since I already have a VT100...

Any opinions sent to me will be consolidated and sent here
if there is enough in the way of responses.

Thanx.

	ken
	coar.umass@udel-relay
24-Dec-82 19:09:00,502;000000000000
Date: 24 December 1982  21:09-EST (Friday)
From: James Mazer <GREN.MAZE.MIT-OZ@BRL>
To:   Stephen C Hill <Steveh@Mit-Mc>
Cc:   info-cpm at BRL
Reply-to: MAZE at Mit-Mc
Subject: CP/M Systems Programming books
In-reply-to: The message of 23 Dec 1982  12:20-EST from Stephen C Hill <Steveh at Mit-Mc>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 24 Dec 82 21:07-EST
Via:  Brl; 24 Dec 82 21:32-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 21:47-EST

Has anyone seen a similar book (similar to Mastering CP/M)
for CP/M-86 or MS-DOS?
/Jamie
25-Dec-82 12:54:26,412;000000000000
Date:     25 Dec 82 14:54:26-EST (Sat)
From:     Herb Hamilton (WSMR) <hh@BRL>
To:       Info-cpm at BRL
cc:       hh at BRL
Subject:  Need Utility 
Via:  Brl; 25 Dec 82 15:22-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 25 Dec 82 15:27-EST

We have a need for a utility, program or whatever which will convert
a file created under TRS-DOS to CPM 2.2 format. Please respond to
me not the entire list.

  Tnx
  Herb Hamilton
26-Dec-82 00:25:00,1319;000000000000
Date: 26 December 1982 02:25-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  CP/M Systems Programming books
To: MAZE at Mit-Mc
cc: STEVEH at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL
In-reply-to: The message of 24 Dec 1982  21:09-EST () from James Mazer <GREN.MAZE.MIT-OZ at BRL>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 2:09-EST
Via:  Brl; 26 Dec 82 2:40-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 26 Dec 82 2:31-EST

Good News!  As I will say in upcoming BYTE (probably March to
April; the pipeline is long) Digital has reformed!  Due
(according to a letter I have from them; you may believe as much
as you want) to my constant hounding of them, they have new
documents staff.  They have sent me the new manuals for CB80 and
CBASIC, and they are quite good.  Examples,, good organization,
clear English.
	Now for the bad news.	About six months ago I got a
note from a new (two iterations ago, I think) documents person
at Digital; she sent me (proudly, alas!) some new documents for
CP/M 86; they were worse than the usual Digital Research
standard, in that they conformed to all the "Technical Writing"
university level style manuals: no redundancy, "logical"
organization with levels and sublevels, no "superfluous"
examples... And I have not yet seen what the new team has done
with the CP/M manuals.  Possibly, though, they'll reform.
JEP
26-Dec-82 00:30:00,1607;000000000000
Date: 26 December 1982 02:30-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  VT180
To: coar.umass at Udel-Relay
cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay
In-reply-to: The message of 24 Dec 82 11:34-EDT (Fri) from the Golux <coar.umass at Udel-Relay>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 2:14-EST
Via:  Brl; 26 Dec 82 2:40-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 26 Dec 82 2:32-EST

	Digital (DEC , not Digital Research) sent me the
conversion kit for making a VT-100 into a VT-180.  We inst alled
it.  If you like Apples, you may like this; alas, the disk
drives don't seat wel, and you have mounting problems getting
the machin e to believe the disks are in there.  Once you have
them seated and moutned, all seems well, and it is a good
machine; but I never had a machine that had more problems
getting it booted.  The conversion is simple, (I don't recall
what it costs) and if you have a VT-100 it doesn't harm the
terminal capabilities, but rather enhances them; but I guarantee
you will go mad if you try using it long.
	They were supposed to have a FIX for that; some system
that would spin up the drives as you were closing the doors or
something; but if they do, I have not ever got it (and the
people at DEC I was dealing with seem no longer to be in that
division, but rather are now off with the rainbow and thus
uninterested in the VT-180.)  I get the impression that DEC
regarded the VT-180 as a thing to keep their name prominent
while they got out the Rinabow, and that they no longer care
about it.  That may be an uncharitable view, but I have no
evidence to the contrary.
JEP
26-Dec-82 00:30:00,1682;000000000000
Date: 26 December 1982 02:30-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  VT180
To: coar.umass at Udel-Relay
cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay
In-reply-to: The message of 24 Dec 82 11:34-EDT (Fri) from the Golux <coar.umass at Udel-Relay>
Via:  Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 2:41-EST
Via:  UMASS-ECE; 26 Dec 82 19:30-EST
Via:  Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 20:45-EST
Via:  Brl; 26 Dec 82 21:43-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 26 Dec 82 21:35-EST

	Digital (DEC , not Digital Research) sent me the
conversion kit for making a VT-100 into a VT-180.  We inst alled
it.  If you like Apples, you may like this; alas, the disk
drives don't seat wel, and you have mounting problems getting
the machin e to believe the disks are in there.  Once you have
them seated and moutned, all seems well, and it is a good
machine; but I never had a machine that had more problems
getting it booted.  The conversion is simple, (I don't recall
what it costs) and if you have a VT-100 it doesn't harm the
terminal capabilities, but rather enhances them; but I guarantee
you will go mad if you try using it long.
	They were supposed to have a FIX for that; some system
that would spin up the drives as you were closing the doors or
something; but if they do, I have not ever got it (and the
people at DEC I was dealing with seem no longer to be in that
division, but rather are now off with the rainbow and thus
uninterested in the VT-180.)  I get the impression that DEC
regarded the VT-180 as a thing to keep their name prominent
while they got out the Rinabow, and that they no longer care
about it.  That may be an uncharitable view, but I have no
evidence to the contrary.
JEP
26-Dec-82 00:50:00,979;000000000000
Date: 26 December 1982 02:50-EST
From: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>
Subject: what one knows...
To: info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 2:49-EST
Via:  Brl; 26 Dec 82 3:40-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 26 Dec 82 3:35-EST

	Thanks to all those who replied to my plea for help on
downloading things.  As I have said to some of you: what one
ought to know, and indeed once did know, is not always what one
knows NOW.
	INFO for example.  To ITS users, INFO is the natural
place to turn, IF you are not connected at 300 baud.  However,
to those out here at the bottom of an information well, INFO is
less useful than you might think, since it takes it a while to
tell you what strange name it put what you want to know under.
After you've seen the treetop about ten times you can get
discouraged...

	Anyway: thanks for the help.  Now if I can learn what
are stop bits and precisely what protocol I am supposed to use
for this, I'll get some files transferred yet!
26-Dec-82 18:56:00,718;000000000000
Date: 26 December 1982 20:56-EST
From: Charlie Strom <CSTROM@Mit-Mc>
Subject: New BYE-II files
To: INFO-CPM at BRL
Via:  Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 20:35-EST
Via:  Brl; 26 Dec 82 21:43-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 26 Dec 82 21:33-EST

	I have uploaded a series of files to AR73:CPM; on MC which
comprise the BYE-II program. BYE allows remote operation of a CP/M system 
through a dial-up port. BYE-II has a series of configuration modules
for various modems, serial ports, etc. which are patched into the
basic file using a text editor allowing assembly for the target hardware.

We expect the selection of modules to expand at a healthy pace rather
than having to face dozens of equates and an ever-growing source file.
27-Dec-82 11:28:00,423;000000000000
Date: Monday, 27 Dec 1982 10:28-PST
To: Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay>
Cc: Herb Lin <LIN@Mit-Mc>, info-cpm at BRL
Subject: Re: 8085 ZCPR version
In-reply-to: Your message of     23 Dec 82 08:46:20 EST  (Thu).
From: bridger at Rand-Unix
Via:  Rand-Unix; 27 Dec 82 13:43-EST
Via:  Brl; 27 Dec 82 14:46-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 27 Dec 82 14:41-EST

	I'd like to send you a disk for a copy.
			Thanks. bridger
27-Dec-82 16:45:18,1865;000000000000
Date: 27-Dec-82 15:45:18-PST (Mon)
From: vax135!houxm!mel at Ucb-C70
Message-Id: <8211272345.11797@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82])
	id A11781; 27-Dec-82 15:45:31-PST (Mon)
Re: downloading, gates, FTP, etc.?
Apparently-To: info-cpm
Via:  Mit-Ai; 27 Dec 82 19:26-EST
Via:  Brl; 27 Dec 82 20:24-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 27 Dec 82 20:11-EST

I just read a note on Usenet fa.info-cpm from POURNE@Mit-Mc asking how to
download from ITS.  Now isn't this ridiculous?  Here is a noted network user,
who has been a customer of MIT-MC for years, a CP/M user to respect, and he
can't get through the maze either.  Isn't it about time to publish on the
various nets just how they are cross-connected, and what is possible in the
way of mail delivery, article submission, and file transfer  --  and, just
how in exquisite detail to do each of these things?  W8abc or whoever keeps
whetting our appetites with little jems he has placed on MIT-MC (complete
with search coordinates that I am sure would be useful in finding same).
They might as well be sent to the backside of the moon!  If these nets are
going to serve their purpose, they have to get a whole lot easier to use.
A great big help in this direction would be for those in the know to take
some time to let those of us who aren't; in on the secrets. (Ellen, are you
listening?  Mark, are you?)  Please don't flame at me with a bunch of
Philadelphia Lawyer stuff.  The nets are cross connected, there are those
of you who use this advantageously (to the good of everybody: DOD, DCA,
Universities, and private companies -- we all paid for these things to aid
in making our industry powerful enough to do what is needed  -- and I
claim that computer networks are one of the areas we need to nurture NOW),
please tell us how.      Mel Haas  ,  houxm!mel
27-Dec-82 22:55:00,362;000000000000
Date: 27 Dec 1982 2155-PST
From: Lwright at Sri-Kl
Subject: change in distribution list
To:   info-cpm at BRL
Via:  Sri-Kl; 28 Dec 82 1:03-EST
Via:  Brl; 28 Dec 82 1:25-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 28 Dec 82 1:33-EST

	Please make the following changes to your cpm info list:

ADD:	MCINFO@SRI-KL

REMOVE: LWRIGHT@SRI-KL

Thanks much-
Larry Wright
-------
28-Dec-82 01:30:00,1267;000000000000
Date: 28 December 1982 03:30-EST
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@Mit-Mc>
Subject:  downloading, gates, FTP, etc.?
To: vax135!houxm!mel at Ucb-C70
cc: Info-Cpm at BRL
In-reply-to: The message of 27-Dec-82 15:45:18-PST (Mon) from vax135!houxm!mel at Ucb-C70
Via:  Mit-Mc; 28 Dec 82 3:31-EST
Via:  Brl; 28 Dec 82 4:07-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 28 Dec 82 4:19-EST

Thanks for your message, Mel.  Unfortunately the gateway between
Usenet and Arpa is not officially sanctioned and only mail seems to be
able to be transferred, no files.  When I announce some program has
been uploaded to MIT-MC, I realize that Usenet readers won't be able
to get them, but I would be willing to netmail some of the smaller
files if you want them.  All the files on MIT-MC are available on my
Remote CP/M system (313) 759-6569 (callback), which is available
24-hours a day.  Of course you have to pay for the phone call, but if
that's the only way to get the "goodies" then that will have to be
accepted (unless you want to wait 2-6 months for them to make their
way into CP-MIG or CPMUG).
   I am investigating a possible way to send these files to
net.sources, but havn't learned how to do that yet.  I have an account
on a machine that is connected to BOTH Arpa and Usenet.
28-Dec-82 15:31:17,477;000000000000
Date:     28 Dec 82 17:31:17-EST (Tue)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       BILLW at Sri-Kl
cc:       info-cpm at BRL
Subject:  Re:  ZCPR2 Release Schedule and Other Info
Via:  Brl; 28 Dec 82 18:02-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 28 Dec 82 18:12-EST

	Sorry, the ZCPRn processors are very tight Z80 code (that's where
the Z comes from).  Am afraid you are out of luck there.  However, most
of the utilities are straight 8080 code, and you would probably use them.

		Rick
28-Dec-82 16:00:00,561;000000000000
Date:     28 Dec 82 18:00:00-EST (Tue)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       Herb Lin <LIN@Mit-Mc>
cc:       info-cpm at BRL
Subject:  Re:  ZCPR?
Via:  Brl; 28 Dec 82 18:30-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 28 Dec 82 18:38-EST

	ZCPR and ZCPR2 will not run on an 8085, altho many of the ZCPR2
utilities will.  "ZCPR" stands for Z80-based Command Processor Replacement,
and, running in the same amount of space as the conventional CP/M CCP,
ZCPRn contains some very tight Z80 code, particularly jump relatives,
which will NOT run on an 8080 or 8085.

		Rick
29-Dec-82 22:42:00,733;000000000000
Return-Path: <Nemnich.PDO@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA>
Date:  29 December 1982 22:42 est
From:  Nemnich.PDO at Mit-Multics
Subject:  Zenith Z-90 and new Daisywriter
To:  Info-CPM at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Mc; 29 Dec 82 22:36-EST
Via:  Brl; 29 Dec 82 23:08-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 29 Dec 82 23:03-EST

I have a friend who has the chance to buy a Z-90 (with 2 dsdd drives)
and a Daisywriter 40cps printer for a reasonably good price from someone
whom he thinks will deliver good service.

He asked me to query the list, mostly to find out what Heath/Zenith
owners think of the products in general (how reliable they are, etc).
Same for Daisywriter.

Also, he has the chance to get Magic Word or Wordstar...any comments on
these?  Thanks.
31-Dec-82 08:38:00,620;000000000000
Date: 31 December 1982 10:38-EST
From: Shawn F McKay <SHAWN@Mit-Ml>
Subject: delete me
To: info-cpm at BRL
cc: info-rsts.MIT-OZ at BRL, info-apple at BRL, info-printer at Mit-Mc
Via:  Mit-Ml; 31 Dec 82 10:55-EST
Via:  Brl; 31 Dec 82 11:14-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 31 Dec 82 11:36-EST


I have sent mail to most of your info-foo-request lists, and nothing,
so, here it is on the list, "Please remove my name from this list",
and I hope some point after things calm down, (i.e. when people
only get 1 copy of any mail they are sent), I would like to
be on all the above again..


		Thanks

	          -Shawn
31-Dec-82 10:19:00,2290;000000000000
Date:     31 Dec 82 12:19:00-EST (Fri)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       info-cpm at BRL
cc:       info-micro at BRL
Subject:  ZCPR2 Release
Via:  Brl; 31 Dec 82 12:35-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 31 Dec 82 12:41-EST

        The release of ZCPR2 is more-or-less on schedule.  Two of
the four manuals are virtually finished, and some bugs have shown
up in some of the utilities, but I think they will  be  ready  by
the 10 Jan release date.

        As scheduled, today is the release of drafts to the  ARPA
Net.   I will try to upload the drafts of the Concepts Manual and
the Installation Manual to MIT-MC tonight.  I  will  send  out  a
message  when they are there.  The only hitch I can see right now
revolves around TCP conversion.

        The following is a summary of what will be uploaded.   At
the  time  of the upload announcement, I will also send a summary
(rather long) to INFO-CPM.

ZCPR2 Concepts and Installation Manuals
        First Draft Release

        The Squeezed Forms will have  been  uploaded  to  MIT-MC.
They  will  be  stored  in the CPM directory, and their names are
Z2CON and Z2INS with types of WQ and WQH (i.e., Z2CON WQ  is  one
manual).


        The Concepts Manual is over 60 pages long.
        The Installation Manual is over 27 pages long.


Files:

    1 File: Z2CON   .WQ  -- Size:    72K -- CRC: 00 37
        Comment: Squeezed Concepts Manual
    2 File: Z2CON   .WQH -- Size:     8K -- CRC: 0E 37
        Comment: Squeezed Concepts Table of Contents and Foreword
    3 File: Z2CON   .WS  -- Size:   112K -- CRC: 62 6F
        Comment: Concepts Manual (WordStar Format)
    4 File: Z2CON   .WSH -- Size:     8K -- CRC: 4F B4
        Comment: Concepts Manual Table of Contents and Foreword
    5 File: Z2INS   .WQ  -- Size:    32K -- CRC: BF 97
        Comment: Squeezed Installation Manual
    6 File: Z2INS   .WQH -- Size:     4K -- CRC: D2 46
        Comment: Squeezed Ins Manual Table of Contents and Foreword
    7 File: Z2INS   .WS  -- Size:    52K -- CRC: 2F 2F
        Comment: Installation Manual (WordStar Format)
    8 File: Z2INS   .WSH -- Size:     8K -- CRC: 02 F5
        Comment: Installation Manual Table of Contents and Foreword
++     8 Files Checked ++


        Rick
31-Dec-82 12:16:00,1089;000000000000
Date: 31 December 1982 14:16-EST
From: RMS.G.EH.MIT-OZ at BRL
Sender: EH at Mit-Ai
To: info-cpm at BRL
cc: EH at Mit-Ai
Via:  Mit-Ai; 31 Dec 82 14:15-EST
Via:  Brl; 31 Dec 82 14:18-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 31 Dec 82 14:21-EST

Hello, As some of you may have known, there is some
kind of incompatiblity with the early MODEM.COM's and
the later super MODEM7's along with MBOOT3 and XMODEM.
While running my RCPM sys (DataTech 415-595-0541), I noticed
XMODEM 4.2 didnt work with MODEM7 so I had to upgrade to
XMODEM 5.xx ... Today, was trying to transfer a file from
from my H89 to my TRS-80 and it didnt work..the TRS-80
(MODEM2) and the H89 (MODEM731) kept bombing out with
TIMEOUT and 15H RCVD NOT ACK. However,my MODEM2 and MODEM7
will talk to XMODEMs on others and talk to MBOOT3 on my
computers. So, I had to use MBOOT on trs-80 instead of MODEM2
to receive the file from H89 and use MBOOT on H89 instead of
MODEM7 to receive from TRS-80.  Really confusing...what
happened to protocol standard in MODEM7xx ??
            Thank you very much,
            Edward Huang
31-Dec-82 12:48:59,1567;000000000000
Date:     31 Dec 82 14:48:59-EST (Fri)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@BRL>
To:       info-cpm at BRL
cc:       info-micro at BRL
Subject:  ZCPR2 Manuals on MC
Via:  Brl; 31 Dec 82 14:59-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 31 Dec 82 15:05-EST

        As advertised, the draft ZCPR2 Concepts and  Installation
manuals are now on MIT-MC under CPM as Z2CON WQ, Z2CON WQH, Z2INS
WQ, AND Z2INS WQH.  They will have to be unsqueezed in  order  to
read them.

        Download time should be roughly 1 hour for Z2CON WQ and 1
hour  for  the other three.  Note that these are subject to revi-
sion and will probably be revised.  As I see your tradeoffs  (and
the purpose of this upload), you can download now, read the manu-
als, and send questions and comments.  If you  have  any  problem
with  some  part  of  the manuals, now is a good time to find out
(i.e., before final release).  There will be time to discuss them
before  I  start  travelling.  Also, if you are interested in at-
tending one of my talks, it might be nice to have seen  the  sub-
ject  material  beforehand  and then use the free time to discuss
details.

        The CRC values on the files check  as  advertised  in  my
previous message.  Also, the CPM directory is now 94.5% full with
this addition, and Frank or Keith may wish to move these files.

        A summary message on ZCPR2 will  come  out  later  today.
The next major item in the schedule is release of new final manu-
als, ZCPR2 itself, and all of the ZCPR2 System Utilities on 10-11
Jan.  Enjoy.

                Rick
31-Dec-82 20:23:08,14355;000000000000
Date:     31 Dec 82 22:23:08-EST (Fri)
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@Brl.arpa>
To:       info-cpm@Brl.arpa
Subject:  ZCPR2 Summary
Via:  Brl; 31 Dec 82 22:35-EST
Via:  Brl-Bmd; 31 Dec 82 22:39-EST

        The following is a summary of some of the major  features
of ZCPR2.  It is not complete, and I tried to make it as brief as
possible.  Its purpose is to give you some  idea  of  what  ZCPR2
does  and,  if you are still interested, the Concepts Manual goes
into a complete description and much more detail with examples.

        Enjoy!

                Rick

---- Summary Follows ----

     A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities    1




                          Overview of ZCPR2
                           by Richard Conn



       The   Z80-based  Command  Processor  Replacement  Version  2 
  (ZCPR2)  is a replacement for the CP/M Console Command  Processor 
  (CCP)  which creates an extremely capable and  flexible  environ-
  ment,  placing a totally new interface on the user's CP/M system.  
  The  primary  purpose of ZCPR2 is to improve the user's  product-
  ivity by giving him an environment which is much more  responsive 
  to  his needs and configurable to his specific desires than  CP/M 
  2.2 while still remaining CP/M 2.2 compatable and allowing him to 
  run  most,  if  not all,  of his CP/M software with little or  no 
  modification.

       ZCPR2 provides an interactive interface to the user's micro-
  computer  which  is significantly extended  over  that  interface 
  provided  by the CP/M 2.2 CCP.   The user is invited to refer  to 
  the  Rationale Manual for a detailed comparison between the  CP/M 
  2.2  CCP and ZCPR2.   A working knowledge of CP/M 2.2 is  assumed 
  for  the following discussion.   Also,  the following  discussion 
  pertains to ZCPR2 systems which are configured in the recommended 
  way (see the Installation Manual).  There are over 4,000,000 ways 
  (conceivably)  that one may configure a ZCPR2 system for his  own 
  uses, and, as a general rule, the features described below may be 
  turned on or off as the system manager desires.

       There  are  currently  four documents planned  to  accompany 
  ZCPR2.  These documents and their functions are:

            1) Installation Manual -- How to Install ZCPR2
            2) Concepts Manual (this teaser was derived from it) --
                 a tutorial on the basic concepts associated with
                 using ZCPR2, the ZCPR2 System of Programs, and
                 the ZCPR2 environments
            3) Rationale -- why things were done the way they
                 were done under ZCPR2
            4) User's Guide -- how to use ZCPR2, including details
                 on all of the ZCPR2 commands in the ZCPR2 System


  1. Directories under ZCPR2

       A directory under ZCPR2 is a user area on a disk,  and it is 
  identified  by the combination of the disk letter and the  number 
  of  the  user area (like A10 or B7) or by a mnemonic  name  (like 
  JEFF or ROOT).   The directory is a logical concept, and there is 
  only  one physical file directory (which keeps track of  all  the 
  files) on each logical disk.











     A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities    2


       The  disk/user way of identifying a directory (called the DU 
  form from here on) is standard to the ZCPR2-resident commands and 
  the ZCPR2-specific utilities.   In all cases, these commands will 
  permit use of the DU:  form wherever the simpler D: form was used 
  under CP/M 2.2,  and the D part of the DU: form is optional.  For 
  instance,  the following ZCPR2-resident commands are valid  exam-
  ples  which  illustrate  the utility of this  extended  directory 
  specification:

            A>DIR A7:
            A>DIR A:
            A>DIR 7:
            A>ERA B22:MYFILE.TXT
            A>TYPE C31:README.TXT
            A>LIST 12:LOCAL.MSG
            A>SAVE 2DH C12:SYSTEM.CPM

       Hence,  the user can "sit" in any directory on any disk  and 
  readily  work  with  files in any other directory  on  any  disk.  
  Likewise,  where  the  user used to be able to prefix a COM  file 
  with a disk letter in order to temporarily log into another  disk 
  and  extract that file from it,  the ZCPR2 user can prefix a  COM 
  file with a DU form:

            A>7:MYPROG
            A>C31:RUNIT
            A>B:MYGO

       Finally,  the  third logical extension of this DU form is to 
  allow  the user to employ it to "log into" a directory,  like  he 
  used the D:  form before to simply change disks and the "USER  n" 
  command to change user areas:

            A>B7:
            B7>12:
            B12>C:
            C12>0:
            C>

       As  a side note,  because of the flexibility of the DU form, 
  the  USER  command is no longer necessary and  is  not  available 
  under ZCPR2 unless a programmer implements it as a transient.

       ZCPR2 is a replacement for the CP/M 2.2 CCP,  but it is only 
  a part of the ZCPR2 SYSTEM.   The ZCPR2 System is a collection of 
  programs  consisting  of ZCPR2 itself and a series  of  utilities 
  designed  to  augment the capabilities of ZCPR2.   All  of  these 
  utilities  respond  to the ZCPR2 DU form,  just like  the  ZCPR2-
  resident commands,  while the conventional CP/M utilities do not.  
  For example,  the following commands show examples of some of the 
  ZCPR2 utilities available in the ZCPR2 distribution:












     A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities    3


            A>XDIR B7:
            A>ERASE C4:FILE1.TXT,B31:FILE2.TXT,FILE3.TXT
            A>RENAME B12:*.BAS=*.BAK,14:MYFILE.TXT=HISFILE.TXT
            A>MCOPY C22:=A11:*.*

       These  ZCPR2 utilities,  however,  support a second form  of 
  directory  specification  as well.   This is the named  directory 
  specification,  called the DIR form from now on.  The DIR form is 
  a  logical  association between a mnemonic name and  a  disk/user 
  area.  For example, the directory name of ROOT may be assigned to 
  mean A0,  JEFF to mean C4,  BACKUP to mean C0,  etc.   All of the 
  ZCPR2 utilities (by and large) recognize this form as  well;  the 
  following are examples:

            A>XDIR WORK1:*.ASM
            A>ERASE TEXT1:FILE1.TXT,TEXT2:FILE2.TXT,FILE3.TXT
            A>RENAME JEFF:*.BAS=*.BAK
            A>MCOPY BACKUP:=*.*

       With the named directory environment fully implemented,  the 
  user's  ZCPR2 system can be configured in a number  of  different 
  ways  beyond even the 4,000,000+ basic ways ZCPR2 can be  config-
  ured.   In particular,  a directory tree structure can be set up, 
  similar to the UNIX concept but much more flexible.  For example, 
  the  following environment is one such working environment  which 
  can be created under ZCPR2:



         ----------------- ROOT -----------------------
         |                /    \                      |
       ROBERT         JEFF      LINDA               BOSS
         |           / |  \    / | | \              | ||
      HARDWORK      JA CB JC  LA CB LC LD      WATCHJ |WATCHL
                   /          |        |           WATCHR
                  GAMES      SCHOOL   GAMES
   

               Sample ZCPR2 Named Directory Structure


  2. ZCPR2 Resident Commands

       Like  the CP/M 2.2 CCP,  ZCPR2 contains some commands within 
  itself.   It contains all of the CCP commands (except USER, which 
  isn't needed anymore) and a few more,  but all of the ZCPR2 resi-
  dent  commands are different with logical extensions to  the  CCP 
  commands.   We  have already seen the DU form,  which can be used 
  with  any  ZCPR2 resident command.   Note that the DU form  is  a 
  logical extension of the D: prefix under CP/M 2.2.

       The  following is a comparison of the various resident  com-
  mand forms under the CP/M 2.2 CCP and ZCPR2:










     A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities    4



                Comparison of ZCPR2 and CP/M 2.2 CCP
                          Resident Commands

  Function                      ZCPR2 Command       CCP Command
  Display $DIR File Names       DIR DU:afn          DIR D:afn
  Display $SYS File Names       DIR DU:afn S        No Equivalent
  Display All File Names        DIR DU:afn A        No Equivalent

  Erase Specified Files         ERA DU:afn          ERA D:afn
  Erase with Verify             ERA DU:afn V        No Equivalent

  Rename File                   REN DU:ufn=ufn2     REN DU:ufn=ufn2
  Rename Over Existing File     REN DU:ufn=ufn2     No Equivalent

  Print File on Console         TYPE DU:ufn P       TYPE D:ufn
    Without Paging
  Print File on Console         TYPE DU:ufn         No Equivalent
    With Paging
  Print File on Printer         LIST DU:ufn         No Equivalent

  Save Memory into File         SAVE n DU:ufn       SAVE n D:ufn
  Save Memory into File         SAVE n DU:ufn       No Equivalent
    With Overwrite Warning
  Save Memory into File         SAVE nH DU:ufn      No Equivalent
    and Specify Size in Hex
  Save Memory into File         SAVE n DU:ufn S     No Equivalent
    and Specify Number of        or
    Blocks                      SAVE nH DU:ufn S

  Load File Anywhere Into       GET adr DU:ufn      No Equivalent
    Memory

  Reexecute Last Transient      GO params           No Equivalent
    Without Reloading It

  Call Subroutine Anywhere in   JUMP adr            No Equivalent
    Memory

  Change Disk                   D:                  D:
  Change User                   U:                  USER n
  Change Disk and User at       DU:                 No Equivalent
    Same Time




















     A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities    5


  3. ZCPR2 Standard Transient Commands

       All  of the CP/M-supplied transient commands will work  with 
  ZCPR2, and ZCPR2 supplies several additional ZCPR2-specific tran-
  sients, as indicated in the following tables:


  Program   Function
  -------   ---------
  CD        Log Into Named Directory with Extended Preprocessing
  COMPARE   Utility to Compare Two Files
  CRC       Cyclic Redundancy Check Utility
  DIFF      Utility to List File Differences
  DUTIL     Disk Utility, based on DU
  ECHO      Utility to Echo Its Command Line
  ERASE     File Erase Utility
  FINDBAD   Bad Block Scanner, based on FINDBD
  GENINS    Utility to Install Itself and Other Utilities
  HELP      Online Documentation System
  LD        Load Named Directory Buffer
  LU/LRUNZ  Command Library Utility and Extended Command Processor
  MCHECK    Menu File Syntax Checker
  MCOPY     File Copy Utility which can replace PIP in many cases
  MENU      Extended Command PreProcessor designed to create menus
  MKDIR     Create Named Directory File
  PATH      Define/Display ZCPR2 Paths
  PROTECT   Utility to Set File Attributes
  PWD       Print Current Named Directory Environment
  RENAME    File Rename Utility
  STARTUP   Initial Command Line Generator
  SUB2      Extended SUBMIT Indirect Command File Facility
  XDIR      Directory Display and Scan Utility
  ZEX       Memory-Based Indirect Command File Facility and Monitor


  4. Multiple Command Lines

       Another major feature of ZCPR2 is the Multiple Command Line.  
  Unlike  CP/M 2.2,  ZCPR2 will allow you to specify a sequence  of 
  commands  to  be executed on one  line.   Under  the  recommended 
  configuration,  each  command is separated by a  semicolon.   For 
  example:

            A>B:;DIR A7:*.TXT;DIR C22:*.COM A;C7:;ERA *.COM;DIR
            A>1:;TINIT ASM;B7:;WS TEST.TXT;ERA *.BAK;XDIR


















     A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities    6


  5. Command Processing and Paths

       Command processing under CP/M 2.2 is really quite simple:
            1) Input and Parse Command Line from User or File
            2) Determine if it is a CCP-resident command and
               run it if so
            3) Determine if there is a COM file in the current
               disk/user area and load it and run it if so
            4) Print error message if 2 and 3 fail

       Command processing under ZCPR2, however, is quite different:
            1) Input and Parse Command Line from User or File
            2) Determine if it is a ZCPR2-resident command and
               run it if so
            3) Search along the command search path, logging into
               the disks and user areas indicated in the path until
               either the bottom of the path is reached or the
               desired COM file is found; run program if found
            4) Invoke an Extended Command Processor, passing the
               Command Line to it
            5) Print error message if 2, 3, and 4 fail


       As the reader can see,  the concept of a path is fundamental 
  to  ZCPR2.   In  the ZCPR2 vernacular,  a Path is a  sequence  of 
  directories  to be searched for a file.   The specification of  a 
  path  is  as  a sequence of DU forms which are  extended  by  the 
  introduction  of the "$" character to indicate a current disk  or 
  current user area.  A sample path is:

            $$ $0 A$ A0 -- Path From Current Disk/Current User 
                 to Current Disk/User 0 to Disk A/Current User to
                 Disk A/User 0 (Current Disk/User is the disk/user
                 area that the user is logged into)

       If  the  user is logged into B7,  for  instance,  then  this 
  symbolic path would be translated into the absolute path of B7 B0 
  A7 A0.

       When ZCPR2 searches for a file, it follows such a path.  Two 
  extremely flexible features about the ZCPR2 design are:

            1) the command search path may be redefined dynamically
               by the user
            2) several ZCPR2 transients use paths also, and these
               paths may be the same path used by command search or
               they may be unique to each transient
