11-Oct-83 07:18:05-MDT,1052;000000000000
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Date:     Thu, 6 Oct 83 3:34:50 EDT
From:     Keith Petersen <w8sdz@brl>
To:       Info-Cpm@brl-vgr
Subject:  Bad ZCPR2 XDIR3.MAC from SIG/M

The following is relayed from the SYSOP Clearinghouse RCPM.

Date: 10/05/83
From: Tom Bering
To:   All
Re:   Bad ZCPR2 XDIR3.MAC

I have found the same bad copy of XDIR3.MAC on all systems called to
date, save one.  Seems that SIG/M released it that way when the ZCPR2
package was made available.  Many system operators seem unaware that
the file is bad because the CRC is as shown in the CRC index for the
volume containing that file.  The last few sectors of XDIR3.MAC having
the CRC 69BD are garbage.  The correct CRC is that shown in Appendix A
of the Installation Manual, 8CD9.  Correct CRC for the SQUEEZED version
XDIR3.MQC is 24F4.
                                        Tom Bering
11-Oct-83 07:28:10-MDT,924;000000000000
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Date: 5 Oct 83 19:57:23 EDT (Wed)
From: Mike Ciaraldi <ciaraldi@Rochester.ARPA>
Subject: S-100 Networking
To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA

We (Taylor Instrument) have several Zenith Z-100's we
want to tie together in a local network.
Does anyone have experience with S-100-bus-compatible
networking boards (Ethernet, Omninet, etc.) and
software that runs under CP/M-80, CP/M-86, Concurrent
CP/M-86, and/or MS-DOS?

Mike Ciaraldi
ciaraldi@rochester
11-Oct-83 07:29:39-MDT,787;000000000000
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Date: Fri, 7 Oct 83 17:03 EDT
From: Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Subject: Chapter-11 ??
To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA
cc: Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA

I've heard a nasty rumor and I dont know if it is true.






The rumor is that NorthStar computers, the people who used to sell the
S-100 Horizons as kits, has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.  We are in
the process of purchasing about 30 Advantages and would like to know
whether or not this rumor is true.

Thanks,

Tracy.		Thieret.WBST @ PARC-MAXC.ARPA
11-Oct-83 07:36:02-MDT,1111;000000000000
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	id AA23187; Sat, 8 Oct 83 15:03:07 PDT
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 83 15:01:00 PDT
From: jlapsley%D.CC@berkeley
Message-Id: <8310082203.AA23187@ucbvax.ARPA>
To: k.mmoon.ES@parc-maxc
Subject: CompurPro 8085/8088 BIOS
Cc: k.info-cpm@brl

   The CompuPro CP/M-86 or CP/M-816 comes with a BIOS.  Unfortunately the
BIOS is a huge creature and must be assembled with Sorcim's ACT assembler.
Because all I/O is handled under the 8088 whether you are in 8085 mode
or not, you will have to be fluent in 8088 assembler if you wish to modify
the BIOS.  They even say in their CP/M-86 Tech manual, "Expect no hand
holding from CompuPro, G & G Engineering, or Sorcim."  But if you have
a good knowledge of 8086/8088, it would seem possible without a great
deal of trouble.

					Phil
				(jlapsley%D.CC@BERKELEY)
11-Oct-83 07:40:42-MDT,907;000000000000
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Date:  8 October 1983 21:31 cdt
From:  Weinstein.Tech_Rep@hi-multics
Subject:  BIOS Changes for 10 mbyte HARD DISC
To:  info-cpm@brl

Anyone out their willing to share some words of wisdom. I have an R2E
computer with a 5 megabyte drive right now. I would like to modify the
software to support a 10 megabyte drive. Is there a 8 megabyte limit per
CPM logical volume.......what is this tied to? I figure the best way
would to break the 10 MB into two logical 5 MB drives. If there is
anyone out their that has a 10 MB on an R2E or would like to give
general type information.... pls send mail.....  ...  thx in advance
Dennis
11-Oct-83 07:43:09-MDT,1146;000000000000
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Date: 9 October 1983 17:49 EDT
From: Keith F. Lynch <KFL@mit-mc>
To: REM@mit-mc, DEVON@mit-mc
cc: KFL@mit-mc, INFO-CPM@mit-mc, protocols@rutgers

  Why are there no implementations of PC-net available?  Our application
involves linking a VMS, a TOPS-10, a couple CP/Ms, and possibly some MS-DOSs
over asynchronous lines, probably at 1200 to 9600 baud.  The only real
possibilities would seem to be KERMIT and MODEM7.  I have heard of no PC-net
implementations for any of the above mentioned systems.  We will most likely
go with KERMIT.
  Does anyone know of any KERMIT implementation for a Molecular?
  I heard that some company (possibly IBM) has come out with something
they called "PC-net" for use with the IBM-PC.  This was about a year ago.
It was mentioned briefly on the net and then (apparently) forgotten.
Whatever happened with that?
								...Keith
11-Oct-83 07:44:30-MDT,1879;000000000000
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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 83 11:53 PDT
From: MMOON.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Subject: Re: 85/88
In-reply-to: <8310081353.AA17623@lbl-csam.ARPA>
To: Ian.F.Darwin@LBL-CSAM.ARPA, Toronto@LBL-CSAM.ARPA, 
    Canada <utcsstat!ian@LBL-CSAM.ARPA>
cc: utcsrgv!uw-beaver!lbl-csam!mmoon.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA, 
    grant.groggy@LBL-CSAM.ARPA, info-cpm@brl.ARPA

The info I have from National says the NSC800 is *not* pin compatible
with the 8085.  This is more than a mere rearrangement of corresponding
signals to different locations; while the address/data and intererupt
busses have corresponding pinouts, the other signals have a z80 flavor.
I am most interested in maintaining IEEE-696 timing, as well as the
"16-bit" upgrade, so I must do a good timing analysis before a
piggy-back could be designed.  Furthermore, their is serious doubt, if I
read the literature correctly as to the TTL compatibility of the NSC800,
at least at full speed.  The levels required to assure logic 1 and logic
0 on this CPU's inputs look like they may stretch the slew rates of the
interfacing TTL in the worst case.  Still got to think about that one.
The information I have is on the 4 Mhz version of this device & while I
may *call* National's rep, could be 2001 before I get any reply.
Therefore this message is heeaded for netland, in the hopes someone else
has looked at this very tempting possibility, and to keep Rumour Control
from propagating the mistaken (unfortunately) notion that the Nsc800 is
a drop-in-and-go replacement (just in case somebody is following this
enquiry with like intentions).

		MMoon.es

11-Oct-83 08:11:09-MDT,638;000000000000
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Date: Thu 6 Oct 83 09:37:59-CDT
From: CS.TEMIN@UTEXAS-20.ARPA
Subject: cromemco system three
To: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA

Anyone out there have one?  I just bought it.  It is about three years
old, with standard 64K configuration.  I am running an ancient CDOs,
but would like to uprgrade to CPM 2.2.

Please respond directly to cs.temin@utexas-20.
Thanks.
-------
11-Oct-83 08:14:26-MDT,691;000000000000
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Date: 6 Oct 83 16:42:56 PDT (Thursday)
From: McAfee.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Subject: Televideo TS802
To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA
cc: 820Interest^.Wbst@PARC-MAXC.ARPA, ES820UG^.es@PARC-MAXC.ARPA, 
    Homecomputing^.pa@PARC-MAXC.ARPA, McAfee.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Reply-To: McAfee.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA

I am looking for the disk format for the Televideo TS802. Both SSSD and DSDD.

Thanks
	Pete McAfee
	
	McAfee.es@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
11-Oct-83 15:38:14-MDT,544;000000000000
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Date: 11 Oct 1983  14:11 MDT (Tue)
From: Frank J. Wancho <WANCHO@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
To:   INFO-CPM@BRL.ARPA
Subject: Contributing files

If you have public domain files to contribute to the collection on the
SIMTEL20, please contact me directly for the details.

--Frank
11-Oct-83 18:30:54-MDT,1067;000000000000
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Date: 11 Oct 83 19:58:17 EDT
From: JOSEPH@RUTGERS.ARPA
Subject: What is the latest modem for the Hayes Micromodem 100?
To: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA

Hi,
I run an RCP/M system in New Jersey on a Cromemco Z80 cpu
S100 system using the D.C. Hayes Micromodem 100 for 110
and 300 baud callers.  We are currently running an old (very)
version of modem and would like to upgrade to something newer
with better features.  I have seen MODEM 712 up and running on
a Zenith Z100 and I really like it.  I have read through the 
documentation for MODEM712 and it supports the PMMI but does not
seem to support the Hayes.  Does anyone have Modem712 configured 
for the Hayes?  What was the latest version that DID support
the Hayes and where can I get it?

				Seymour
			   JOSEPH@RUTGERS

-------
12-Oct-83 07:34:53-MDT,632;000000000000
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Date: 11 October 1983 22:07 EDT
From: Paul L. Kelley <PLK@mit-mc>
Subject: Mapping of MC:CPM; onto SIMTEL20 directories
To: Info-CPM@brl


	The mapping of the MC:CPM;ARnn archives onto SIMTEL20
directories is available as MC:JCAF;MC-TO- SIMTEL. This file
was earlier available on MC:CPM; however this directory seems
to have gone to the great beyond.

12-Oct-83 07:37:31-MDT,1398;000000000000
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Date:     Wed, 12 Oct 83 7:00:21 EDT
From:     Charlie Strom (NYU) <strom@brl-bmd>
To:       Larry Campbell <LCAMPBELL@dec-marlboro>
cc:       INFO-CPM@brl-vgr
Subject:  Re:  C compiler info wanted


Larry, I noted your comments with interest. I too am about to go for a
16 bit version of C, mine to run under CP/M-86. I have a couple of
comments for you and would appreciate your resonse.
The Byte article seemed to imply that the DeSmet compiler would not fly
in the long run only because it is cheap ($100), not because it is inherently
defective or less powerful than its competitors.
I am leaning to CI's C86 package. I am a neophyte at C still, but it seems
that this one is more popular than the others - would still like to see
a product emerge that is the BDS C of 16 bitters, but it is unlikely.
Your objection to C86's needing a lot of typing ought to be solved trivially
with a SUBMIT file, right?
Lastly, I have been told that support from the author is excellent from
C86 and non-existent from Mark Williams. I do not want to buy any more
products from an outfit unwilling to spend the money and effort to properly
support them.
Thanks in advance for your reactions.
12-Oct-83 09:31:34-MDT,1239;000000000000
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Date: 3 Oct 83 17:20:04-PDT (Mon)
To: info-cpm@brl
From: harpo!floyd!cmcl2!lanl-a!bb@ucb-vax
Subject: Need a pointer to UMODEM stuff
Article-I.D.: lanl-a.2351

I am using a CompuPro 8088/8086 with 643K memory, hard disks, and floppies.
I run MP/M with mods installed by Gifford, the company we bought it from.
We need to communicate with the Central Computing Facility here at LANL
and have been using a program supplied by Gifford.  Unfortunatly, there
are problems with this program, like losing random characters which would
disastrous for the application we have in mind.  SO, instead of starting
to write our own simple comm. program, I want to check out UMODEM and/or
anything else available for a system like mine.  Would someone point me
to what I should look at/acquire at SIMTEL20 ?  Any advice and pointers
is appreciated.

Bryan Bingham	...ucbvax!lbl-csam!lanl-a!bb
12-Oct-83 12:44:36-MDT,4945;000000000000
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Date: 28 Sep 83 12:38:55-PDT (Wed)
To: info-cpm@brl
From: decvax!duke!unc!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary@ucb-vax
Subject: Re: Wanted: random number generator written in C
Article-I.D.: ecsvax.1289
In-Reply-To: Article tekecs.2200

   There seem to be two independent questions here:  What is a good
algorithm for generating random numbers that is independent of hard-
ware, and how do you come up with a reasonably random seed every time
you run?
   Taking the second question first, the problem is fairly trivial if
you have a real time clock (which isn't available in this case,
evidently), or a way to check the keyboard to see if the user has
typed something.  (In the latter case, you ask the user for some
complicated input and generate random numbers until you get a keypress.)
If neither is easily available, you may have a problem!  I suspect a
solution is going to be system-dependent no matter what you do, other
than asking the user for his/her birthday, social security number,
bank balance, SAT score (my old favorite choice of random deviates),
etc..  So I'd suggest you isolate that part of the code.
   Fortunately, random numbers are fairly easy to generate.  The
"standard" way is to take the old seed, multiply by a fixed amount,
add a fixed amount, mod the result (or let it overflow on systems
that aren't traumatized by integer overflow), and that's your next
number and the next seed.  The trick is in generating good values
for the two constants.
   Actually there are THREE constants, counting the multiplier, the
addend, and the thing you mod with (whatever the heck that's called).
Since that's often "automatic" (the silent overflow), you don't hear
it discussed much.  If x is the seed, m the modulus, a the multiplier,
and c the increment, we can use the formula (ax+c) mod m.  M should
be a large number, ideally prime.  If it IS prime, you only need to
choose a and c so that they have no common factors (other than 1),
so they can be made prime.  That guarantees (if memory serves) that
the sequence you get will be at least m long.  It doesn't guarantee
that it will be really "random", and you are probably advised to
experiment with different values for a, c, and m (or even join ACM)
to make sure you get something acceptable.  Knuth (in
Seminumerical Algorithms) waxes eloquent on this subject.
   My own favorite random number generator is incredibly fast and
well-suited to microcomputer and game applications.  It depends on
the silent integer overflow (which all microprocessors provide,
to my knowledge), and can be coded in a few statements in assembler.
   The basic idea is easily visualized by having a circular list
of numbers, at least one of which is odd.  Picture the list written
around the perimeter of the face of a clock.  We disconnect the
mechanism and weld together the hour and minute hands so that they
are a fixed angle apart.  Starting anywhere, we add the contents of
the "box" pointed to by the hour hand to the one pointed to by the
minute hand.  That's our new random number and replaces the one
pointed to by the hour hand.  The we advance the hands one box.
   Only adds and increments are involved, so this is incredibly
speedy.  It also generates very, very long sequences that are hard
to object to on practical grounds (I mean for games...this tech-
nique is probably unadvisable for research work, I've read).  You also
must ensure that the initial set of seeds contains some fairly
widely spaced numbers - the first few dozen (or few thousand) numbers
generated don't look very random if you put small numbers in the
buckets at the outset.
   You need to make sure that you have at least one odd number to
start with (otherwise you can never get one), and the number of boxes
and the "angle between the hands" is important.  Here is the
algorithm in simple form:
   1.  Make array X with elements X[1] to X[5]
   2.  Make integers I and J
   3.  Initialize all X to seed values (at least one odd)
   4.  Initialize I to 2 and J to 5
   5.  Repeat forever:
       Increase X[J] by X[I]
       Output X[J] as the next random number
       Increment I and J, but if either goes over 5, reset it to 1
   The numbers 2 and 5 are "magic".  Others that work (in pairs) are
(1,2), (1,3), (1,4), (2,5), (1,6), (1,7), (3,7), (4,9), (3,10), (2,11),
etc.  In general, the bigger J the longer the sequence.  These numbers
are dependent on doing a mod with a power of 2 (or allowing integer
overflow on a binary machine).
   See Knuth for a long description of all this mess.
12-Oct-83 13:37:26-MDT,781;000000000000
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Date: Tue, 11 Oct 83 13:07 EDT
From: Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Subject: Re: Chapter-11 ??
In-reply-to: "Your message of 11 Oct 83 11:18:55 EDT (Tuesday)"
To: Mike Simpson <msimpson@bbn-unix.ARPA>
cc: INFO-CPM@mit-mc.ARPA, Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA

I just called the TREASURER of NorthStar and he said that there is no
problem of cash flow or profitability for their company.

Articles in Business Week and USA Today uphold that srtatement.

Apparently the rumor is NOT TRUE!!!!

Tracy.



13-Oct-83 08:20:42-MDT,795;000000000000
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Date: 12 October 1983 21:48 EDT
From: Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml>
Subject:  help?
To: info-cpm@brl

I have a bootstrap problem concerning getting a couple of files from
mc which will enable me to start downloading.  The files I need on a
standard 8 inch CP/M disk are on-line now, but I have no way of
transferring them to my machine without them.  can someone pls help by
transferring these files (I will give pointers) to an 8 inch disk, and
mailing me the disk?  I will of course pay postage, disk cost etc.

thanks.

13-Oct-83 09:59:29-MDT,1794;000000000000
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Date:  13 October 1983 00:53 pdt
From:  Bakin.ESSDPP@hi-multics
Subject:  DEC Rainbow questions
To:  info-cpm@brl
Acknowledge-To:  Bakin.ESSDPP at HI-MULTICS

The DEC Rainbow now comes with both CP/M and MSDOS.  A Computique
salesman claimed that with the Winchesters, a file created by an MSDOS
program could be used by a CP/M program and vice versa.  IS THIS TRUE?

Also, in the same vein....  Does anyone make ANY MSDOS programs for the
Rainbow?  Every piece of software I have seen has been for CP/M.

Is there a vendor writing compilers for the Rainbow which use the same
object file format, and have similar calling conventions, and hence can
be linked together?  I wouldn't mind buying compilers which were not the
best, if there was a somewhat complete set of languages.  Specifically,
I am looking for a Pascal, FORTRAN (77?), PL/I, and assemblers that will
link together.  Any help?

I am also looking for real word-processing software, I do not have
enough experience with SELECT, and none with any Final Word stuff, but I
suspect they are not what I want.  I would rather have a screen editor,
and a word-processor which are separate.  Something ala runoff on the
DEC-10 or VAX, or compose on Multics or nroff on UN*X.  Is there
anything like these for the Rainbow?  In the same light, what are the
best screen editors for the Rainbow?  I know that MinceIsNotEmacs, but
how close is it?


Thanks in advance,  (In advance of my buying a Rainbow)

Jerry Bakin <Bakin -at HI-Multics>
14-Oct-83 08:36:18-MDT,691;000000000000
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Date: Thursday, 13 Oct 1983 18:11-PDT
To: info-cpm@brl
Cc: bridger@rand-unix
Subject: ?break key for modem9 with z80sio
From: bridger@rand-unix

	What's a good way to enable a Kaypro or similar z80-sio machine
that lacks a hardware break key to send a break with MODEM9?
	For convenience, the break command should be optionally bound
to a one-stroke keyboard key, possibly one that sends an 8-bit code.
--bridger
14-Oct-83 10:51:09-MDT,1898;000000000000
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Date:  13 October 1983 08:29 cdt
From:  Ronald W. <Heiby@hi-multics>
Subject:  UMODEM 3.6 problem?
To:  INFO-CPM@brl

I have compiled UMODEM 3.6 on a Wicat 150 under Unisoft's port using the
SYS3 define and VAX/11-780 under 4.1bsd using the VER7 define and in
both cases I have the same problem.  To get umodem onto the two systems,
I used ftp to get it to my main host (HI-Multics), used the MODEM2
protocol to get it to my home CP/M system, then raw dumped it up to each
of the other two systems (incompatible media, etc.).  After making sure
there were no line glitches, I compiled the programs as above and used
them to try to transfer the same UMODEM 3.6 source up again, so that I
could compare the two copies.  I wanted to make real sure that there
were no hidden problems in the original source transfer.  What I got was
the first block of data, then UMODEM thought that it had received the
end of file.  MDM712 still thought it was doing a transfer until it did
its ten retries on block two.  I did this several times and the problem
was with the same first block each time.  Other files worked ok.  I
tried deleting an asterisk from the first 128 bytes of the file, then it
transferred fine until much later in the file.  I figure that it must be
a problem with some checksums.  The checksum for that block was 1CH (if
I figure it right).  After fudging things by making minor changes to the
offending blocks, I was able to send UMODEM 3.6 to the Wicat and, except
for my two changes to comments, compared identically to the original.
Anyone have any ideas?  Thanks.  Ron <Heiby @ HI-Multics>.
14-Oct-83 10:53:23-MDT,920;000000000000
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Date: 30 Sep 83 8:23:55-PDT (Fri)
To: info-cpm@brl
From: ihnp4!houxm!hocda!machaids!djj@ucb-vax
Subject: Need CRC information
Article-I.D.: machaids.470

I need some information on CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Codes).  I have
CRCK.COM version 4.4 and LU.COM version 3.00, they each compute a
different CRC for the same file.  Does anybody know which one  is
correct?

Also I would appreciate receiving any routine written in "C" that
computes CRC codes.  Thanks.
                Don Jackowski, Bell Labs, x4443, Whippany, NJ
                (machaids!djj, iheds!djj)
14-Oct-83 11:09:35-MDT,757;000000000000
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Date: 6 Oct 83 12:13:09-PDT (Thu)
To: info-cpm@brl
From: hplabs!hao!seismo!rlgvax!plunkett@ucb-vax
Subject: RE: Re: FORTRAN (ugh!)
Article-I.D.: rlgvax.1249
In-Reply-To: Article pur-phy.1040, <2421@csu-cs.UUCP>

Anyone considering SuperSoft or Microsoft FORTRAN might like to
await the upcoming FORTRAN-77 from Digital Research, Inc.  It will
be seen to blow the others out of the water.
Scott Plunkett
14-Oct-83 11:17:08-MDT,806;000000000000
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Date:     Thu, 13 Oct 83 10:31:33 EDT
From:     Gregory Hogg <greg@brl-bmd>
To:       info-cpm@brl
cc:       greg@brl-bmd
Subject:  "The Programmer's CP/M Handbook"




Hello,
	I was wondering if anyone had the above book?  If so have you typed
in the BDS-C Library functions in chapter 11?  They have some very nice 
functions for playing with the dir on the disk.  This book looks great!
Please let me know if you can give me a pointer to these funcitons so that
I do not have to type them in again.

					Greg the Hogg
14-Oct-83 11:45:29-MDT,1316;000000000000
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Date: 6 Oct 83 15:32:14-PDT (Thu)
To: info-cpm@brl
From: harpo!floyd!cmcl2!lanl-a!bb@ucb-vax
Subject: MP/M-86 question
Article-I.D.: lanl-a.2428

My question deals with the MPM functions dealing with System Queue
management, ie, MAKE QUEUE, DELETE QUEUE, READ/WRITE QUEUE, etc. 
My problem is this:  I have a detached process that makes and opens the
queue.  The process at my console opens the same queue and process 1
sends a message to me.  It then issues a DELETE QUEUE call and quits.
The trouble is that the process at my terminal wont quit!  The Queue
is not deleted!  I am sure the DELETE QUEUE is executed, but nothing
seems to happen.  After I abort my terminal process I find the queue still  
there.  If I run a simple program to delete that queue and do nothing
else that works OK.  I am using Computer Innovation's C-86 C compiler.

Any info will be appreciated.  Thanks.

b2   ...ucbvax!{lbl-csam, purdue, cmcl2}!lanl-a!bb  Bryan Bingham
14-Oct-83 11:59:38-MDT,3011;000000000000
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Redistributed-date: 13 Oct 1983 1407-EDT
Redistributed-by: Larry Campbell <LCAMPBELL@dec-marlboro>
Redistributed-to: info-cpm@brl-vgr
Date: 13 Oct 1983 1405-EDT
From: Larry Campbell <LCAMPBELL@dec-marlboro>
To: Bakin.ESSDPP@hi-multics
Subject: Re: DEC Rainbow questions
Message-ID: <"MS11(2354)+GLXLIB1(1056)" 11959206852.22.71.13420 at DEC-MARLBORO>
References: Message from Bakin.ESSDPP@hi-multics of 13-Oct-83 0053-EDT

I'm not aware of any programs that DEC will supply that allow CP/M
to read MS-DOS files or vice versa, but there are several independent
software producers selling such things.  They're not too expensive (all
under $100).

Lotus 1-2-3 and The Final Word are two software products that I know
exist for the Rainbow running MS-DOS.  In addition, many software packages
written for the IBM PC will run under MS-DOS on the Rainbow.  Rainbow
MS-DOS can read and write IBM single-sided floppies, either 8- or 9-sector
per track.  I bought a copy of the Final Word on IBM floppies and it runs just
fine on my Rainbow.

Note that, as with any other IBM "compatible", programs that "know" about
where certain hardware items are and bypass MS-DOS to use them will
not work on a Rainbow, or any other PC-look-alike.  What this usually means
is that programs that do fancy screen formatting (spreadsheets, word
processors, etc.) must be customized for the Rainbow (or Compaq	or Hyperion
or Columbia or ...).  "Vanilla" programs, such as most compilers, should
work fine on all these machines.

I can't answer your compiler questions;  unfortunately all the compilers
I've seen so far have their own object file formats.  Yecch.

The Final Word essentially IS a separate screen editor and post-processing
formatter;  they make it look integrated by allowing you to invoke
the formatter from inside the screen editor.  I think the Final Word is quite
good.  My version is just a touch slow, because it's a "generic MS-DOS"
version;  I expect the Rainbow-specific version I'm getting soon to be lots
faster.

SELECT is junk;  don't waste your time with it.

MINCE (by the same folks who do Final Word) is pretty good.  In 25 words
or less, it's ITS EMACS without TECO.  No macros;  the closest thing
to macros is query replace.  SCRIBBLE is a text formatter you can get with it
that's sort of a stunted SCRIBE.  The Final Word is essentially MINCE with
different key bindings and more online help, with SCRIBBLE glued on underneath.
It's actually better than it sounds.  I got the Final Word because MINCE
wasn't available for MS-DOS, and the folks at Mark of the Unicorn seemed
to imply that they wanted to phase out MINCE and SCRIBBLE and concentrate 
on The Final Word.

Sorry about the lenght of this...  hope it helps.
   --------
   --------
14-Oct-83 12:10:37-MDT,1116;000000000000
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Date: 23 Oct 70 23:30:02-PDT (Fri)
To: info-cpm@brl
From: decvax!wivax!apollo!nazgul@ucb-vax
Subject: Re: Wanted: random number generator written in C
Article-I.D.: apollo.121
In-Reply-To: Article <1289@ecsvax.UUCP>

    Although it is probably not relevant in this case, I might
mention how the Apple ][ generates it's random number seed for
Applesoft Basic (although it is extensible to the Aztec C that
I use).  Quite simply, everytime it checks to see if a character
has been typed at the keyboard (which is everytime it prints a
character, or is waiting for input) it increments a counter.  That
counter then can be used as a reasonably random seed for any random
number generator that the user creates.

                                        -kee
14-Oct-83 14:50:47-MDT,1196;000000000000
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Date: 13 Oct 1983  15:44 MDT (Thu)
From: Frank J. Wancho <WANCHO@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
To:   INFO-CPM@BRL.ARPA, INFO-MICRO@BRL.ARPA
Subject: Some lists moved

The following mailing lists and their archives have been moved to
SIMTEL20:

List name:		AMETHYST-USERS@SIMTEL20
Changes/additions:	AMETHYST-USERS-REQUEST@SIMTEL20
Current archives:	[SIMTEL20]MICRO:<CPM.ARCHIVES>AMETHYST-ARCHIV.TXT
Old archives:		[SIMTEL20]MICRO:<CPM.ARCHIVES>AMETHYST.ARCHIV.31013

List name:		INFO-MODEMXX@SIMTEL20
Changes/additions:	INFO-MODEMXX-REQUEST@SIMTEL20
Current archives:	[SIMTEL20]MICRO:<CPM.ARCHIVES>MODEMXX-ARCHIV.TXT
Old archives:		[SIMTEL20]MICRO:<CPM.ARCHIVES>MODEMXX.ARCHIV.31013

List name:		NORTHSTAR-USERS@SIMTEL20
Changes/additions:	NORTHSTAR-USERS-REQUEST@SIMTEL20
Current archives:	[SIMTEL20]MICRO:<CPM.ARCHIVES>NORTHSTAR-ARCHIV.TXT
Old archives:		[SIMTEL20]MICRO:<CPM.ARCHIVES>NORTHSTAR.ARCHIV.31013

--Frank
14-Oct-83 15:01:39-MDT,1163;000000000000
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Date: Thu 13 Oct 83 18:36:39-EDT
From: RMS.G.ALBERS%MIT-OZ@MIT-ML.ARPA
Subject: USR Password
To: "harpo!eagle!mhuxi!mhuxh!mhuxd!cwc%ml%ucb-vax@mc" %MIT-OZ@MIT-ML.ARPA
cc: jalbers%bnl@MIT-MC.ARPA, info-cpm%brl@MIT-MC.ARPA

I have used the USR Password for 4 months now, and it is much better than the
SmartModem 1200 in that it is cheaper, smaller, it doesn't get as hot, and it
comes with FULL documentation.  The only thing I don't like about it is that
it has no front panel lights (no big problem), and the speaker does not have 
a volume control, although it has software (user) selectable settings for
on, of, and on untill connected (the default), which are done useing the
SmartModem commands.  It also does not let you set things like how many rings
to answer on, ringback answer, etc. 
Other than those, I think it puts the SmartModem away.

							Jon Albers
-------

14-Oct-83 15:18:14-MDT,1985;000000000000
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Date: 13 Oct 1983 15:51-PDT
Sender: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
Subject: Re:  help?
From: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
To: LIN@mit-ml
Cc: info-cpm@brl
Message-ID: <[USC-ISID]13-Oct-83 15:51:59.ABN.ISCAMS>
In-Reply-To: The message of 12 October 1983 21:48 EDT from Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml>

I'll be glad to download those files for you.  I can manage the standard
8" SSSD just fine.

Something else though -- have you a modem and a serial port?  If so, it's
relatively easy to download stuff from the net.  Little pieces:  use PIPMODEM,
which also has the simple terminal capability to net in the first place.
I've successfully downloaded 500 80-col lines of text, using PIP's buffer
alone (no chance to lose characters that way while PIP writes to disk).
Using PIPMODEM, you can bring over a more sophisticated program like MBOOT,
which has a little better capability to download larger files.

If using your own machine is out of the question (no ports, no modem,
no available dial-up ports to the ARPAnet, whatever), sure -- I'll do the
disk thing for you.  Incidentally, I'm running a Morrow Decision I, whose
usual disk format is 8" double sided double density with 1024-byte sectors.
If you want high-density like that, can do; also single sided 256, 512,
and 1024 byte/sector formats.

Alternatively, if you don't have an ARPAnet port, but do have a telephone
and 300 or 1200 baud modem, I can always work a civilian telephone line
modem download to you.

Contact me via ARPAnet at ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID, or call me (work
(919)396-6862/5622; AUTOVON 236-6862/5622; home (919) 868-3471 after
around 1800 (East Coast time).

David Kirschbaum
SGM, USA
HQ XVIII Abn Corps (civilian persona Toad Hall)
14-Oct-83 15:33:01-MDT,3594;000000000000
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Date: 14 October 1983 00:12 EDT
From: Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml>
Subject:  appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists.
To: info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl

the following is an interchange (about 50 lines) between myself and
another info-cpm/info-micro reader, who says my use of these lists has
been improper.  I request commentary on it; I will CC answers to the
list if people so desire.

************* start of interchange *****************

Date: 13 October 1983 23:58 EDT
From: Herb Lin <LIN>
To:   BYRNE at CMU-CS-C
cc:   LIN
Re:   INFO-CPM and INFO-MICRO

    From: BYRNE at CMU-CS-C.ARPA
    Re:   INFO-CPM and INFO-MICRO

    All right, lin, enough is enough!  All you ever do is post to
    these bboard asking for help.  You NEVER CONTRIBUTE A DAMN THING!
    You just use up other people's time asking silly questions.

    Are you totally incompetent?  Or do you just want others to
    do your working and thinking for you?

Incompetent? I don't think so.  Ignorant?  Probably.  I am new to the
micro business, and having lost many hours of work in previous
programming experience,I am rather hesitant to push my largely
outmoded knowledge.  Furthermore, my knowledge is general rather than
specific, and as you know, general knowledge may help you to
understand what is going on (once explained), but it doesn't help to
get a specific system running.

    I see these "I'll 
    summarize and post" things from you, but you never have
    posted a summary of responses.  

Two comments here: (1) the number of responses I have gotten for the
past year is rather small; thus there has been little to post.  I am
not complaining, nor do I rule out the possibility that most people
who read my questions are like you and would rather not respond.  I
simply state this as a fact.  (2) I have indeed posted responses when
there have been more than one (i.e., a summary) which have NOT been
CC-ed to the lists directly.  Do you think I should post responses
which have been sent directly?  What if no one expresses interest in a
response?  Should I simply *assume* that there is an interest?

    Your quota of postings is up for the year.  Please refrain from
    posting until you can contribute something instead of
    asking for handouts.

I'll leave this one up to the readers of the list.  If there is some
stated (or implied) policy concerning the use of the lists concerning
quotas of questions or types of discussion, I will abide by it.  I am
operating under the assumption that novice questions are appropriate,
even if from the same source a great deal of the time.  How about it,
INFO-CPM and INFO-MICRO?  Is this right?  Or am I wrong?  Am I abusing
these lists?  I will summarize and post to the list (if I get
responses).

In addition, I have indeed responded to people who have asked me to
share information.

    By the way...this message has been brewing since Feb of this year,
    I just got too damned tired of seeing your damned questions
    this time.

If my questions are that onerous to you, my suggestion is to set up
your mail reader to flush anything that comes in with my name attached
to it.  that way, i won't bother you.  If your mail reader is BABYL, I
can even show you how to do this (assuming you don't know already).

14-Oct-83 15:53:27-MDT,2251;000000000000
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Date: 13 Oct 83 17:56:12 EDT (Thu)
From: Mike Ciaraldi <ciaraldi@Rochester.ARPA>
Subject: Digital Research C
To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA

For those who have been following my travails with DRI C for
CP/M-86 (R): 
We are now using Version 1.03 of the compiler, with Version
1.02 of LINK86, and everything looks good. There
are problems with using the compiler with version 1.01 of the linkage
editor.
How I found this out:
When Version 1.0 of the compiler showed up several months ago, it
sat on a desk for a few days. Then the linker arrived in a separate
package, with a note saying it was needed to run the compiler
but had inadvertently not been shipped.
Both the compiler and linker had "READ.ME" files, and the one for the
compiler did say you had to use at least version 1.02 of the linker.
It turns out the new disk really had version 1.01 of the linker!
If I had paid more attention to the header which the linker prints
out when it runs, I would have noticed this. As it is, none of the
other users did either.  
In any event, there were compiler problems which all seem to be
fixed with the new version, 1.03. When that version arrived, someone
noticed the linker mismatch, and a call to DRI resulted in their sending
a copy of linker 1.02.  

Results:  It works!  It even compiles and runs under Concurrent CP/M,
on both the IBM PC and the Zenith Z-100. We have successfully run multiple
tasks, sent queue messages back and forth, and shared blocks of memory.
The sample programs compile and run in all 4 memory models, too.
One bonus: under CP/M-86, if you are using the compact, medium,
or big memory models, you have to invoke you .CMD file with the R command,
so it will do segment fixup after loading. Under CCPM this is
automatic.
14-Oct-83 16:16:38-MDT,728;000000000000
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Date:     Fri, 14 Oct 83 8:23:35 EDT
From:     Gregory Hogg <greg@brl-bmd>
To:       Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml>
cc:       info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl
Subject:  Re:  appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists.

If you have questions ask them.  If some one feels that you ask to many then
that person can just not read mail you send, BUT I WILL BE DAMNED if he will
prevent me from reading the mail you send.  This is still a free country!


					Greg the Hogg
14-Oct-83 16:43:46-MDT,1407;000000000000
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Date:     Fri, 14 Oct 83 11:08:44 EDT
From:     A Brinton Cooper III <abc@brl-bmd>
To:       Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml>
cc:       info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl
Subject:  Re:  appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists.

Herb,
	I suspect your adversary has a brain-damaged mail reader.
At BRL, if I choose not to read mail from you, I simply type
'delete from Herb Lin' and all your messages go away.

	What about appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists?  These are
common user resources; the users determine what's appropriate.  If you
think that you have legitimate questions, then it is your right to
post them to the net.

	I, too, am a little disappointed by the condition of summaries
posted to the net.  I suppose that most people read rather than write.
Again, that's not any individual's fault, but the fault of all of us,
collectively, for failing to help out our fellow person.

		Byrne's attack on you actually embarrassed me.  I suppose anyone
can get to a point of frustration.  For that, I forgive him and apologize
to you.  

	Keep up your questions; many of the rest of us need the
answers as well.

Brint
14-Oct-83 16:59:49-MDT,1840;000000000000
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Date:  14 October 1983 10:33 cdt
From:  Weinstein.Tech_Rep@hi-multics
Subject:  5 Mb Hard Disc Drives and TM100-3M Floppy
To:  info-cpm@brl
cc:  info-micro@brl, info-trs80@brl

For the past two months I have helped several people get 5 Mb Hard Disc
Drives. The biggest problem was that I was getting them at $350 and
charging $375 ($25 shipping/my gas..etc).  The TM 602S sold so fast that
they were unavailable for a while.  The real problem was that the people
that I have a contact with were really selling these drives to OEM's for
>$430 and therefore they decided to make more money than and not sell it
to people like us. I was able to locate some Segate ST-506 5 Mb drives
for $375 ($400 with shipping..etc) for some.

The real jist of this message is that I have seen with my own eyes 10
Tandom TM602s (5.25 5 mb hard disc drives....NEW) and I can get them for
anyone interested. I can also get 4 ST-506 Drives but they cost $25.00
more. He also has TM100-3M floppies which are single sided 100
TPI(Tracks per inch) and 80 track drives for $160.00.

I not sure if messages like this belong on the net and anyone who can
suggest a better place would be appreciated. Its just that I feel that
if people can get these discs at CHEAP prices..... why not tell people.
All of the drives that I have gotten have checked out ok and are new.  I
would appreciate people directing requests/questions to me directly so
that info-cpm and info-micro are not cluttered up any more that what I'm
doing now.

				Dennis  612-425-1813 after 7:30 cst
14-Oct-83 17:16:08-MDT,1351;000000000000
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Date:     14 October 1983 0909-pdt
From:     Gary Little <Little.Fleas@hi-multics>
Subject:  Re: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists
To:       info-cpm@brl-vgr

Vell, sharlie, it appearrs that you have uncovered the dread ten toed
bi-ped closet flammer --and he appears to have a severe case of a hair
up his butt.  Ain't nothin' wurse than a rabid flammer with an infected
rectal follicle.  

Frankly, flammer (Mr. Lin), got a dime?  If you don't I will gladly
loan you one so that you can call someone who cares.

Who appointed you as the guiding light, all around guru and all knowing
censor for CPM and MICRO?  Questions DO contribute a hell of a lot to 
lists.  One question or comment can function as the catalyst that
produces virtually volumes of information.  A smart man once said "One
man's meat is another man's poison."  The question you don't like may be
one I am having trouble with and consequently have a great deal of
desire to see answered.

Yeah, we do get an awful lot of inane and redundant questions.  The
simple and unobnoxious solution is go on to the next entry.

                              Gary
14-Oct-83 17:26:27-MDT,1531;000000000000
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Date:     14 October 1983 0909-pdt
From:     Gary Little <Little.Fleas@hi-multics>
Subject:  Re: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists
To:       info-cpm@brl-vgr

Oooops, I really don't like to dup messages in MICO and CPM, but I fired
for effect on the wrong person in the CPM list.  Here it is again with
the proper culprit targeted.

Vell, sharlie, it appearrs that you have uncovered the dread ten toed
bi-ped closet flammer --and he appears to have a severe case of a hair
up his butt.  Ain't nothin' wurse than a rabid flammer with an infected
rectal follicle.  

Frankly, flammer (Mr. Byrne), got a dime?  If you don't I will gladly
loan you one so that you can call someone who cares.

Who appointed you as the guiding light, all around guru and all knowing
censor for CPM and MICRO?  Questions DO contribute a hell of a lot to 
lists.  One question or comment can function as the catalyst that
produces virtually volumes of information.  A smart man once said "One
man's meat is another man's poison."  The question you don't like may be
one I am having trouble with and consequently have a great deal of
desire to see answered.

Yeah, we do get an awful lot of inane and redundant questions.  The
simple and unobnoxious solution is go on to the next entry.

                              Gary
14-Oct-83 17:47:08-MDT,742;000000000000
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Date: 14 Oct 1983  12:23 MDT (Fri)
From: Frank J. Wancho <WANCHO@SIMTEL20.ARPA>
To:   INFO-CPM@BRL.ARPA
Subject: Files moved (again!)

The files that were in subdirectories under [SIMTEL20]MICRO:<MC.*>
have been moved to be under [SIMTEL20]MICRO:<CPM.*>.

For example, MDM712.COM was in [SIMTEL20]MICRO:<MC.MODEM7>, and is now
in [SIMTEL20]MICRO:<CPM.MODEM7>.

[SIMTEL20]MICRO:<CPM>CPM.DIRLST has been updated; [SIMTEL20]MICRO:<MC>
no longer exists.

--Frank
17-Oct-83 08:46:59-MDT,779;000000000000
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Date: 16 Oct 1983 1104-PDT
From: Dick <MEAD@usc-eclb>
Subject: Re: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists.
To: LIN%MIT-ML@minet-nap-em
cc: info-cpm@brl
In-Reply-To: Your message of 14-Oct-83 0012-PDT

Bravo! Herb.
Some people on this and other lists I have seen really do take themselves
much too seriously.
I wonder where he was when the "REAL PROGRAMMER" stuff was hip deep?
Maybe you are asking questions he can't answer, and it bugs him (?)
How's about a big, juicy Bronx cheer!?!?!?!
-------
17-Oct-83 08:48:31-MDT,573;000000000000
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Date: 16 Oct 1983 1138-PDT
From: Dick <MEAD@usc-eclb>
Subject: S100 controller for PRIAM hard disk???
To: info-cpm@brl, info-micro@brl

Does anyone happen to know of any S100 hard disk controllers that
support the Priam 1070 8" hard disk drive, with or without the
Priam Smart interface?
-------
17-Oct-83 08:49:29-MDT,1726;000000000000
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Date:  16 October 1983 00:01 pdt
From:  Bakin.SSID@hi-multics
Subject:  Re:  DEC Rainbow questions
To:  Ted Hess <THESS@dec-marlboro>
cc:  info-cpm@brl
In-Reply-To:  Message of 14 October 1983 19:19 pdt from Ted Hess

Thanks for that info!  I gather MS-languages to include Pascal and
Fortran?  Hopefully, Pascal can call Fortran and vice versa? I am
waiting to hear just a bit more before buying.  I have one major concern
that you might explain to me and info-cpm?

I have used DEC-10s, DEC-20s, PDP-11s, and various Vaxen....  While I
have noticed enormous amounts of software available from third party
vendors for each of those machines, the primary writer was DEC.  I can
expect no one but Digital to have any real interest in keeping the
Rainbow alive.  Hence, I can expect no one but Digital to write complete
systems for the Rainbow, be it mutually callable languages, OS updates,
Mail Systems, what have you.  Yet as far as I can tell, DEC has not
written much for the Rainbow.  This seems to leave a gaping hole which
cannot be filled by third parties.

What are DEC's future plan's for the Rainbow?  They now have CP/M and
MSDOS, what about a multitasking OS?  CCPM?  Unix?  How about some
munged version of RT or RSX that supports DCL?  (RT-86?)

It seems horribly brain damaged that DEC doesn't write software for its
machine.  Please!  Tell me why I'm wrong in that opinion!

Jerry Bakin <Bakin -at HI-Multics>
17-Oct-83 08:49:49-MDT,982;000000000000
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From: ssalzman.es@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Date: 16 Oct 83 12:44:14 PDT
Subject: rigid backup utilities
To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA

Hi. Does anyone have (or reccomend) a good rigid backup utility, public domain
or commercial? I need it for a database system I wrote in dbase-ii. Currently
I'm using ZCPR2 utilities for backup, but I need something that will automaic-
ally handle spreading files across several disks, and user friendly. I
just want to be able to say 'backup d:=a:*.dbf' and have the program take care 
of prompting the user for switching floppies. It should also be able to
split a file across several floppies in the case that it wont fit. Thanks
for your help.
			-Isaac.
Ssalzman.es@PARC-MAXC
17-Oct-83 10:14:30-MDT,904;000000000000
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Date: 17 Oct. 1983 3:20 pm (Monday)
From: HIRST.RX@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Subject: Re: "The Programmer's CP/M Handbook"
In-reply-to: greg@brl-bmd.ARPA's message of Thu, 13 Oct 83 10:31:33 EDT
To: Gregory Hogg <greg@brl-bmd.ARPA>
cc: info-cpm@brl.ARPA

Greg,

Well, I have the book and intend getting the software disk that's available also.

We had the author, Andy Johnson-Laird along at our last Chiltern CP/M user
group meeting and although he did not talk much on his excellent book, he did
give a marvelous presentation on CP/M-86 (& concurrent). It may be possible to
direct some questions to him, if you want,

//Ken

17-Oct-83 11:23:27-MDT,595;000000000000
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Date:     Mon, 17 Oct 83 12:25:05 EDT
From:     Gregory Hogg <greg@brl-bmd>
To:       info-cpm@brl
Subject:  DSDD can it read SSSD disks

Hello,
	Can a Double Sided Double Density disk drive read/write Single Sided
Single Density disks?  This question is for both 8 inch and 5 1/4 inch drives.



					Greg the Hogg
17-Oct-83 14:43:30-MDT,781;000000000000
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Date: 17 Oct 83 12:50:32 PDT (Monday)
From: Chapman.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Subject: Re: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists.
In-reply-to: LIN's message of 14 Oct 83 00:12 EDT
To: Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml.ARPA>
cc: info-micro@brl.ARPA, info-cpm@brl.ARPA

Herb

I don't see anything wrong with your asking questions. I suspect that if
anyone asked a question that you could answer, you would respond.

I think that the dls are very useful as a question/answer forum.

Cheryl (Chapman.ES @ PARC-MAXC.ARPA)
17-Oct-83 20:05:41-MDT,2766;000000000000
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Date: 17 Oct 1983 10:00-PDT
Sender: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
Subject: Church Support Software Distribution
From: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
To: INFO-CPM@brl
Cc: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
Message-ID: <[USC-ISID]17-Oct-83 10:00:40.ABN.ISCAMS>



Friends in Netland:

A few weeks ago I replied to an individual asking about software to
support church administration, offering a program of mine.

About six people jumped in and offered to test it, look at it, accept
it no matter what it was, etc.

Well, I finally have Toad Hall's KERMIT up and running, and I've transferred
my church program up into ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID (my directory).  The
files involved are:

		MBRS.BAS.1			The runnable version (no comments)
		MBRSCMT.BAS.1		    The bigger one, full of comments,
					    that overflows 64K of memory,
					    so don't even try it!

		MBRS.DOC.1		    The operator's manual and
					    commentary/explanation.

The program is in Microsoft BASIC (version 5.something), is formatted
for an 80-column screen or printer, and has only a very few machine
or terminal-unique items (Clear Screen, Cursor Addressing a la common
terminals (ESC,=,32+vertical, 32+horizontal), and a special debugging
section (you don't have to use it) that uses the Freedom 100's special
ability to display but not act on control characters so you can look
directly at records with their data separators, relative file LSET's,
etc.)  You can weed all them out if you want.

I tried to make it pretty simple to use, but the code AIN'T SO SIMPLE!
Example:  To get 13 weeks of regular donations, 13 special donation
names, and 13 weeks of special donations into one FIELD line isn't
easy, much less trying to fit all the data into a 126-character record.
So...I MKI$'ed or MKS$'ed them all and concatenated them!  Flashy,
works fine, nice and tight, but lord, don't try to figure the code!

All are welcome to download via FTP and try them out on their micros
(unless you happen to have Microsoft BASIC running on your Cray).

I only ask that you tell me the name and address of the church (or
person) using it so I can help with bugs, updates, and just get a
good personal feeling out of it all!

(Why give it away?  Well, I owe a lot to those public domain authors
out there, but from actual useful utilities and the chance to learn
from their documentation and programs.  Even KERMIT came free! So
this is a small payback.)

David Kirschbaum
SGM, USA
(civilian persona Toad Hall)
17-Oct-83 20:08:24-MDT,1900;000000000000
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Date: 17 Oct 1983 10:41-PDT
Sender: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
Subject: Re:  DSDD can it read SSSD disks
From: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
To: greg@brl-bmd
Cc: info-cpm@brl
Message-ID: <[USC-ISID]17-Oct-83 10:41:24.ABN.ISCAMS>
In-Reply-To: The message of     Mon, 17 Oct 83 12:25:05 EDT from     Gregory Hogg <greg@brl-bmd>

Greg:

Mine can -- donno if that's a function of my wonderful drives (Morrow Decision
I with 8"DSD - I think a Tandon, but forget the model #), or a function of
the Morrow CBIOS that has all the different density formats built in.
Not quite sure how the CBIOS decides what it's reading, but I cheerfully
read and write to  IBM SSSD and SSDD disks I've formatted on my own system,
AND other disks formatted and written to by some sort of 8" drive in
a Santa Clara 10Meg hard disk.  Now the Santa Clara (with their CP/M for
a 56K Apple) won't read mine, no way, not even in SSSD (something funny
about my sectors, I think - I can only go down to 256-byte sectors with
my disk formatter), but I have no trouble reading it.  If I format the
disks on the Santa Clara, I can fill the disk on my drive and the Santa
Clara can read it just fine.

Hope that's an answer.  PS:  I got some Cromemco 5 1/4 disks in from
Langley AFB (I think Cromemco), supposedly SSSD soft sector, but be
damned if my CP/M Apple can read them!  Donno why - I don't like the
Apple so very much, and my disassembly of Santa Clara's CP/M and the
original Microsoft 48K CP/M is not yet complete, so I don't have a
clear picture of the disk drivers yet.

Regards.

David Kirschbaum
SGM, USA
(civilian persona Toad Hall)
17-Oct-83 21:12:26-MDT,1859;000000000000
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Date:     Mon, 17 Oct 83 22:07:16 EDT
From:     David Towson (CSD) <towson@amsaa>
To:       Gregory Hogg <greg@brl-bmd>
cc:       info-cpm@brl
Subject:  Re:  DSDD can it read SSSD disks

Greg - Yes, a double-side double-density DISK DRIVE can read and write
single-side single-density disks.  HOWEVER, there is more to this than
the disk drive alone.  The controller and software must also work with
the single-side single-density format.  As far as the drive itself is
concerned, single-side single-density just uses one head and a different
encoding scheme.  The bit-rate is the same for both single and double
density, but the bits are used "more economically" in double density,
giving an increase in storage capacity by a factor of about 1.8(not
actually 2).  It is the controller that encodes and decodes the data, and
it is also the controller that determines which head is used at any
given time.  Some double-side systems treat each side as a separate disk
having its own separate directory.  Other double-side systems treat both
sides as a single volume having a single directory.  The difference is
determined by the software that does disk I/O.  In summary then,the drive
is able to handle either format, and the single-chip disk controllers
that I know of for double-density can also handle single density(however,
I don't claim to know about all available single-chip controllers), but the
software in a particular system may or may not be able to switch the disk
controller to either format.

                                                    Dave

18-Oct-83 08:34:48-MDT,559;000000000000
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Date:     Tue, 18 Oct 83 1:25:53 EDT
From:     Ron Natalie <ron@brl-vgr>
To:       ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
cc:       LIN@mit-ml, info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl
Subject:  Re:  appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists.

Good god.  Don't mention HAM and Children's Band in the same breath.

-Ron
18-Oct-83 08:35:39-MDT,847;000000000000
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Date: 18 October 1983 02:48 EDT
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE@mit-mc>
Subject:  appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists.
To: LIN@mit-ml
cc: info-cpm@brl, info-micro@brl
In-reply-to: Msg of 14 Oct 1983 00:12 EDT from Herb Lin <LIN at mit-ml>

Holy Catfish!  When dealing with churlish people, there is no
appropriate response, I suppose.

Query: HOW DO you use BABYL to flush messages from someone you
don't want to hear from?  I certainly don't know, and I suspect
there are a dozen others who would like to know (and didn't know
it was possible.)

Keep smiling.

18-Oct-83 08:36:47-MDT,4232;000000000000
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Message-Id: <8310180257.26195@sen.rochester>
Date: 17 Oct 83 22:57:41 EDT (Mon)
From: Mike Ciaraldi <ciaraldi@Rochester.ARPA>
Subject: Re:  DSDD can it read SSSD disks
To: greg@brl-bmd.ARPA, info-cpm@brl.ARPA

The question can be divided into several sub-questions,
with different answers:
1) The drives themselves--I have never encountered a
drive which works for DSDD than would not also work on SSSD.
The problem we used to have, before DD became so widespread, 
is that some drives could not handle the DD,
but that was several years ago.
2) The controller. The way data is stored on the
disk, i.e. the pattern of data and clock pulses going
to the read/write head and ultimately onto the media,
is controlled by the circuitry of the controller and
the controller chip. The most common chips, e.g. Western
Digital 179x series, can handle both, and
most modern controllers handle both, under software 
control. In short, older controllers could often
handle only SD, almost all modern contollers can
handle both DD and SD.
Concerning SS vs. DS., this is again a chip/board
question, and the controllers that have DS should be
able to run SS with no problem.
Aside--J. Pournelle's column in the new Byte asks
if you can use SS 8-inch drives on a Zenith Z-100.
I have certainly used SSSD diskettes on 
such a system, but the drives themselves were DS.
3) Software.  The IBM PC always uses DD, whether SS or DS.
In gneral, drivers can be written to handle both,
and, in fact, the newest versions of CP/M have explicit
places in the Disk Parameter Header and Disk
Parameter Block for recording number of tracks/sector,
etc. These data tables are within the operating system, 
but the actual driver could ignore them, I suppose.

The most common way to hnadle the differing
densities and other formats is something 
like this: the driver itself can handle several
types of disk formats, and uses the info in the DPH and DPB
to decide things like how many bytes to transfer
in each read or write operation.
How do the data tables get set up?
An older way was to make it an explicit command.
e.g. a keyboard command that made drive B: DSDD.
Woe unto you if you stuck a SS or SD disk in that
drive!  Another way was to give alternate names to the
drives, e.g. A: and B: would be physical drives 1 and 2;
(assumed SSSD) referring to C: and D: gave you
the same physical drives, but formatted DSDD. Again,
if you stuck the wrong disk in you would be in trouble.
More modern software switches automatically
whenever you log in a diskette.
It works like this: the driver reads the first
track and sector of the new disk.  (and possibly
other sectors, too). If it cannot read them SD, it
tries DD. If it cannot read the second side, it must 
be SS, etc.
A more common way is to encode  the format info 
in the first sector of the first track, e.g. by
storing the data from the DPB and DPH, or
by just storing a code number. The problem there
is that different manufacturers' formats and
code numvbers are not the same.
Since the first sector usually contains the
boot loader, this format code starts several bytes in,
leaving room for a jump instruction.
Other wrinkles: for compatibility with older formats
which do not have encoding, e.g. CP/M standard
8-inch SSSD (same as IBM 3740), there has to be some
default.   Also, on an 8-inch diskette, the
index hole is in a different place depending on
whether the diskette itself is SS or DS.

This is a little long-winded, I'm afraid, but I hope
it answers your questions. I just got done writing 
drivers for the Z-100, that's why I know some of the
tricks they use.  If anyone else has
more info, I'm sure the net would like
to hear about it.

Mike Ciaraldi
ciaraldi@rochester
18-Oct-83 11:10:53-MDT,764;000000000000
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Date: 18 Oct 1983 12:27:12-EDT
From: reece@nadc
To: info-micro@brl-vgr
Subject: new Morrow computer
Cc: info-cpm@brl-vgr

I have a brochure for a Morrow Micro-Decision model MD-11 which has a built-in
11 Meg Winnie and a DS/DD floppy. It lists for $2200 (i think). It comes with
all the standard software plus a special word processor package previously sold
only with the MorrorWriter. It uses the Z-29 terminal (same price as the MDT-20).
Oh, it has 128k memory and CP/M 3.0 plus 3 serial ports, 1 Centronics port, and
1 RS-422 port. Seems like a good deal.
18-Oct-83 12:20:05-MDT,1388;000000000000
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Date: 18 Oct 1983  11:28 MDT (Tue)
Message-ID: <[SIMTEL20].WANCHO.18-Oct-83 11:28:37>
From: Frank J. Wancho <WANCHO@simtel20>
To:   INFO-CPM@brl
Subject: Problems with SIG/M and CPMUG files

We are finding an alarmingly large number of files in the SIG/M and
CPMUG set on the SIMTEL20 have CRCs which do not match the documented
values.  This was NOT caused by MODEM, but by flakey disk drives used
for an intermediate disk-to-disk copy step.  Those drives were suspect
for some time, and have now been pulled for alignment.
(Unfortunately, the CRCs were checked against the "bad" disk instead
of the original or the documentation files.)

I fear that we may have to re-upload the entire set of 151 disks as
well as the 60 new ones that I'm in the process of converting to
5-1/4" N* format for upload.

While we sort this all out, we ask you to double-check the CRCs of any
files you may have FTP'd from either MICRO:<SIGM.*> or MICRO:<CPMUG.*>
against those listed in the CRC lists in their respective volumes
before using those files.

We are extremely sorry for this inconvenience.

--Frank
18-Oct-83 13:11:59-MDT,961;000000000000
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Date:     Tue, 18 Oct 83 14:22:34 EDT
From:     David Towson (CSD) <towson@amsaa>
To:       Frank J. Wancho <WANCHO@simtel20>
cc:       INFO-CPM@brl
Subject:  Re:  Problems with SIG/M and CPMUG files

Frank - I have discovered that every assembler file that I have downloaded
from the SIG/M collection has had every occurrence of CR/LF changed to 
CR CR LF.  I have used the CP/M editor to get rid of the extra CR's and have
had no trouble assembling the resulting files.  I did the transfers from
SIMTEL20 to a VAX/UNIX machine using FTP in TENEX mode.  Might this exper-
ience shed some light on your problem?

                                                              Dave

18-Oct-83 19:23:26-MDT,923;000000000000
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Date: Tue 18 Oct 83 17:48:00-PDT
From: Jon L. Spear <OTHB@SRI-KL.ARPA>
Subject: Whither MARC?  ZCPR vs. uSHELL?
To: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... we
heard about the soon to be announced MARC system, a 
souped up CP/M compatible operating system written 
in BDS-C and giving you ZCPR2 features and more.

What happened to it?


Has anyone done a comparison of micro-Shell and 
ZCPR2 (and MARC)?  If not, could someone venture a 
comparison?


I recently upgraded my Osborne-I with a 380K DriveC
RAMdisk, and it works great.  Will any of the above
CCP replacements work with it?

Tnx, 
	Jon
-------
19-Oct-83 15:14:48-MDT,601;000000000000
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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 83 08:53 EDT
From: Platteter.Henr@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Subject: Re: DSDD can it read SSSD disks
In-reply-to: "greg@brl-bmd.ARPA's message of Mon, 17 Oct 83 12:25:05
 EDT"
To: Gregory Hogg <greg@brl-bmd.ARPA>
cc: info-cpm@brl.ARPA

Most certainly can.  At least the Shugert and Remex versions I know for sure.

20-Oct-83 08:59:11-MDT,13923;000000000000
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Date: 20 October 1983 02:01 EDT
From: Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml>
Subject: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists...
To: info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl
cc: LIN@mit-ml

About two weeks ago, I forwarded to these lists an exchange between
myself and another person who believed that the ratio of my questions
to the list to the information I provided to the list was unacceptably
high.  I asked the list to comment, since I was looking for advice.

Here are the replies I got from the lists.  I have edited out names so
as to not violate privacy.  Also, I got a number of messages (about
three) which said they agreed with another respondant, but I had
edited out the names by then, and so I couldn't tell with whom they
were agreeing.  Sorry.  In addition, two messages were
incomprehensible.

One other point: I should ** NOT ** have included the name of the
person who sent me mail complaining about my use of the lists the in
the first place; this was a serious breach of privacy, and I have
apologized to him.  I feel particularly bad that people directed to
him personally abusive mail.  I forwarded the substance of the
correspondence to the list, because I wanted guidance, and I have no
regrets about that, but in my view abusive mail has no business on the
lists under any circumstances.

Please let this msg be the end of this saga this time.


Herb Lin

**********************

If you have questions ask them.  If some one feels that you ask to many then
that person can just not read mail you send, BUT I WILL BE DAMNED if he will
prevent me from reading the mail you send.  This is still a free country!

***************************

	I suspect your adversary has a brain-damaged mail reader.
At BRL, if I choose not to read mail from you, I simply type
'delete from Herb Lin' and all your messages go away.

	What about appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists?  These are
common user resources; the users determine what's appropriate.  If you
think that you have legitimate questions, then it is your right to
post them to the net.

	I, too, am a little disappointed by the condition of summaries
posted to the net.  I suppose that most people read rather than write.
Again, that's not any individual's fault, but the fault of all of us,
collectively, for failing to help out our fellow person.

	Byrne's attack on you actually embarrassed me.  I suppose anyone
can get to a point of frustration.  For that, I forgive him and apologize
to you.  

	Keep up your questions; many of the rest of us need the
answers as well.

**********************

Herb and Byrne,

    Two comments. First, use of the list, policys on messages, and
general message content are all controlled by the LIST MANAGER. This
is currently Ron Natalie RON@BRL-VGR and he should be the one to get
any complaints on how it is run. Secondly, mailing lists are a source
of discussion, learning, and experience dictating on micros. One
cannot simply wait for information to spew forth from the more
knowledgeable users, it usually has to be asked for. Often, there may
be only one or two people who can answer a particular query and
consequently there may be only a few responses. If you are waiting
anxiously for a series of posted reponses let the person know and I am
sure he/she will gladly forward copies of any responses to you.  To
wrap it up, the INFO-MICRO list is DESIGNED to be a question and
answer forum for a large user base, with new members arriving and
leaving every day. Not everyone provides all answers, and not everyone
is all questions. However anyone can be one or the other and still be
perfectly within the scope of this list. Misuse consists of
advertising commericial ventures, products, or services, public name
calling (this is an open forum you know) and possibly sending the
message that generated this response, in the future keep your personal
differences to yourself or message RON@BRL-VGR.ARPA or have your name
removed from the list. The choice is yours.

*************************

Vell, sharlie, it appearrs that you have uncovered the dread ten toed
bi-ped closet flammer --and he appears to have a severe case of a hair
up his butt.  Ain't nothin' wurse than a rabid flammer with an infected
rectal follicle.  

Frankly, flammer (Mr. Byrne), got a dime?  If you don't I will gladly
loan you one so that you can call someone who cares.

Who appointed you as the guiding light, all around guru and all knowing
censor for CPM and MICRO?  Questions DO contribute a hell of a lot to 
lists.  One question or comment can function as the catalyst that
produces virtually volumes of information.  A smart man once said "One
man's meat is another man's poison."  The question you don't like may be
one I am having trouble with and consequently have a great deal of
desire to see answered.

Yeah, we do get an awful lot of inane and redundant questions.  The
simple and unobnoxious solution is go on to the next entry.

***********************

I must agree with you. This (info-micro and info-cpm) is a forum for exchange
of ideas and assistance in solving perplexing situations.  I am, unfortunatly,
also ignorant in grass-roots computing and have only a general knowledge. 
Therefore, I welcome the chance to question the "masters" , "experts" or anyone
with more expertise in this area than I.  I consider this forum more of a
learning experience than a "mailing list" per se.

************************

Approximately 1 message out of 50 on this list is of interest to me,
so I'm obliged to wade thru the trash looking for these little "pearls".

It never occured to me to suggest that the trash generators should "shut
up".  Perhaps you should simply ignore BYRNE and let *him* take his case
to the dl directly.  I suspect a lot of defenders for your cause would
spontaneously arise.

In particular, while wading thru the miles of trash, I often see some
interesting question brought up by the likes of yourself, and though I'd
scarcely feel like replying, I sure hate to see such questionings ruled
out.

**************************

I don't even remember your specific questions, so they couldn't have
annoyed me very much.  On the other hand, I'm even more of a novice than
you in the CPM world.  I occasionally get annoyed when someone asks a
question that could have been answered by a casual reading of readily
available documentation - were yours of that nature?

Also, I'm getting the feeling that too many of the people on the list
are too modest.  There aren't enough of the "Gee, look at this neat
{little trick I just discovered, little hack I just wrote, etc}" kind of
messages.

Perhaps this reticence is because there are too many of the "Why are you
wasting our time with these {amateur, obvious, stupid, etc}
contributions?" kind of messages.

*********************

	I too have asked a lot of questions, being new to the micro world.
I haven't been hassled by intolerant folks of the sort quoted in your message-
just lucky I guess. I like the freedom to ask dumb questions and the very
kind responses I've gotten to many. I too have not contributed much to the
list- others are much better qualified and I am as yet a CPM wizard's
apprentice- but many local folks have not asked dumb questions, because I've
shared the net wisdom garnered from my questioning. Count one vote in your
favor and please feel free to forward my response.

********************


Sorry to say, but the majority of your messages are QUITE obnoxious.
Feel free to continue to send them - but do your best to give them
serious thought before you do; check all your spelling, general format
of the message, and try to 

(this is all the mailer sent to me - HL)

***************************

   Sorry to hear about the flap on CPM mailing list... I got hassled
once for posting messages that were specific to cpm apples. The people
on the list said I was being reasonable, though, when I asked them
much as you have done. My money says to ignore the gripe and continue
on as before. I'd also suggest that you do indeed assume there is
interest in any info you receive in response to queries and post it to
the list. In fact I assumed that was what you were doing all along, so
I'm now confused -- were you in fact only posting summaries when you
got additional messages from people requesting copies of info you
obtained?  In any case, I think its appropriate to ask questions on
the list!

(What do you say, NETLAND?  Should I make this assumption?)

******************************

I  HAVE NO COMPLAINTS ON HOW YOU USE THE MAILER AND INFO NETS.  I
OFTEN FIND MANY OF THE QUESTINS ONES THAT  I  MYSELF  AM  CURIOUS
ABOUT.

******************************

   I agree with you completely, Herb.  I have been on these
lists for several years and have just been able to add
meaningful information in the last six months.  (In defense of
myself, I have been a heavy TRSDOS/LDOS user and just started
into CP/M.

   One other thing that you forgot to mention was that of any ten
responses to a request for information, eight will be asking
for you to forward on any other info that comes into your
mailbox.

   I also thought that your message asking for feedback was
well written and has less flame than an old bottle of Tabasco
sauce.  I doubt that I would have responded so civily.

****************************

Herb - I have not been the least bit bothered by your questions.
I feel that the whole idea of interest-group mail would be compromised
if people were to insist on a rigid accounting of give and take.
In other words, "your back needs scratching when it itches, not 
on schedule".  Of course, one can abuse this kind of relationship,
but I have no reason to suspect that you will not contribute when
you have reached "critical mass" in the micro-field and have something
to contribute.  The only thing that I find really annoying on these
mail-lists is grumbling.  I don't mind people asking questions, 
but I feel that grumbling wastes my time.  So as far as I'm concerned,
ask away.

*****************



Herb,
	maybe there is such a thing as "abusing the net-public",  I would
	imagine so, but I have NO opinion about your guilt of such an offense.

	But I am certain that there is a polite and an impolite way of
	addressing someone else,  and I can't stand impoliteness and
	arrogance the way your "adversary" expressed himself.

	takes all his credibility away, in my book anyway, and I support
	your complaint for that reason, if for no other.  Keep on trucking.

        I don't post this, as I feel that it is unfortunate that it even needed
	bringing up, and hope the topic dies down soon.  But I agree, when
	uncertain, ask if the "general public" feels offended by your actions.
 
*****************************

Bravo! Herb.
Some people on this and other lists I have seen really do take themselves
much too seriously.
I wonder where he was when the "REAL PROGRAMMER" stuff was hip deep?
Maybe you are asking questions he can't answer, and it bugs him (?)
How's about a big, juicy Bronx cheer!?!?!?!

****************************

(the following msg was sent to BYRNE, who forwarded it to me; I have
deleted some of the personal attacks against him which it contained.)

I don't know where you get your ideas of how the mailing lists should be run,
but I must ask you to look at the first archive file which has the opening msg.
in it.  It says that the Info-MICRO list is for "the aid of all microcomputer
users, no matter how much experience they have.".  The archives in Info-CPM say
likewise.

****************************

herb,
 	i have been on this list for about 12-15 months now and have
never seen any "quotas" discussed or imposed on this net. i also am sure
there is no "required level of knowledge" to participate in its use. i 
believe you have, in the message from this person non-persona,a very good
example of the inappropriate use of these lists. i wonder how many fingers
on how many hands, it would take to count this guy's contributions to the 
net??	anyway,keep asking the questions,usualy there are many others who
can profit by the answers.

****************************

This list is for exchange of information.  If no-one asked any
questions, no-one would give any answers.  

****************************

I don't see anything wrong with your asking questions. I suspect that if
anyone asked a question that you could answer, you would respond.

I think that the dls are very useful as a question/answer forum.

**********************

You can qoute me as being on your side: I don't see any reason for
this forum to be used as communications among equals.  The great
part of it is that those whoe know less can learn form those who
know more.

***************************

Agree with your response.  I often find the questions as useful as the
responses.

************************

Holy Catfish!  When dealing with churlish people, there is no
appropriate response, I suppose.

*********************

     While I am a novice of the net-mail-list world, I have never heard
of (and would be BITTERLY dissapointed to hear of) any type of quota or
limit imposed on the number of questions asked.  If I were you, I would
just remember that there are a lot more horses asses than horses in the
world and write this guy off. 

*************************

Re:   Your Byrne friend

Sue the sucker....


21-Oct-83 09:44:26-MDT,553;000000000000
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Date:  20 October 1983 20:10 cdt
From:  Weinstein.Tech_Rep@hi-multics
Subject:  FORTPLUS?
To:  info-cpm@brl

HNYas anyone ever heard of a FORTRAN Compiler called FORTPLUS or anything
like that. Who invented it...who sells it... any info would be
appreciated..   thx Dennis
21-Oct-83 10:10:04-MDT,1046;000000000000
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Date:     Fri, 21 Oct 83 7:12:03 EDT
From:     Charlie Strom (NYU) <strom@brl-bmd>
To:       ihnp4!cbosgd!mark@ucb-vax
cc:       INFO-CPM@brl-vgr
Subject:  Adam


The Coleco Adam is still a twinkle in our collective eye; I have no knowledge
of anyone actually obtaining one yet, though my local dealer claims to have
one on the way for me. I may be throwing my $ away, but its illuminating
to be the first on the block...
The system includes the game unit at the base orice; a lower cost version
is supposed to adapt to the existing game, but I do not know if it will
immediately be available.
The operating system is supposedly purchased from Infosoft (remember IOS?)
IOS was one of the several CP/M act-alikes floating around in the 1.4 days;
I do hope the Coleco has 2.2 compatibility.
More if and when I get my hands on the unit.
21-Oct-83 10:11:47-MDT,1289;000000000000
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Date: Fri 21 Oct 83 08:29:09-EDT
From: Gern <GUBBINS@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA>
Subject: Regarding Clarkson's CP/M-85 Lisp
To: INFO-MICRO@BRL.ARPA
cc: INFO-CPM@BRL.ARPA

To all the people wondering about the CP/M-85 Lisp I have mentioned in
past BBOARDs:

I have sent the software and hardcopy DOC to Sol Libes.   I obtained
the author's permission verbally to give it out.  SIG/M requires more
than that, they, of course, need it in writing.   But before I bother
Dr. Bray (author) again, we are trying to get the thing to work, as
none of us can make any sense of it.  It may be a crock program and
worthy of DEL (ERA for all you CP/Mers).   At any rate, I currently
lack the means to upload the programs to the net, and I am leaving
the evaluations of if it is a working program or not to Sol.  It
may not be good enough for SIG/M disk Library, or just a waste of
SIMTEL's disk space.   Sol, it is up to you (and Steve)...

I just want to get my Lisp copy of ANIMAL to run...

Cheers,
   Gern
-------
21-Oct-83 10:32:34-MDT,701;000000000000
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Date:  21 October 1983 10:00 edt
From:  Wiedemann.4506i1808@radc-multics
Subject:  BASCOM Patch
To:  INFO-CPM@brl


I have recently upgraded systems from the Heathkit H-89 to the H-120.  I
fully expected all 8080 CP/M software to be useable on the new machine.
I found that the Microsoft Basic Compiler (BASCOM) will not function
correctly.  Does anyone have the patch necessary to allow this to work
under CP/M-85?

21-Oct-83 12:23:51-MDT,1196;000000000000
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Date:     Fri, 21 Oct 83 13:01:05 EDT
From:     Keith Petersen <w8sdz@brl>
To:       Wiedemann.4506i1808@radc-multics
cc:       Info-Cpm@brl-vgr
Subject:  Re:  BASCOM Patch

If you bought your BASCOM directly from Heath it contains a routine that
checks to make sure it's running under Heath's implementation of CP/M. 
Since you changed operating systems, this would not return the correct
information and would prevent the program from running. This patch was
done by Heath to prevent non-Heath users from buying Microsoft programs
from Heath and running them on non-Heath systems. Heath sells Microsoft
programs cheaper than you can get them elsewhere. Contact Heath for
patching details.  They may be unwilling to provide this information if
you are trying to use the same software on two systems (software is
licensed for only one machine).  If you decide to try to find the routine
yourself, look at it with DDT to see what BASCOM does after you enter it
at 100H.
--Keith
21-Oct-83 15:35:12-MDT,425;000000000000
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Date: 21 Oct 1983 1344-PDT
From: Wayne Culbertson <Culbertson@office-3>
Subject: NEW SUBSCRIBER
To:   INFO-CPM@brl-vgr
cc:   CULBERTSON@BRL-VGR.ARPA

HI! COULD YOU PLEASE ADD ME TO THE DIGEST.

THANK YOU, WAYNE
-------
24-Oct-83 09:07:59-MDT,758;000000000000
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Date: Sat, 22 Oct 83 11:30 EDT
From: Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Subject: MDM711 in Fortran
To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA
cc: Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA

I understand that a program using the Christensen protocols for file
transfer has been written in Fortran for non-CP/M (mainframe) systems.
Is this software in the public domain ?  Does anyone out there have it ?
I really need a copy of it ASAP.  Please message me if you know about
it/have it to give away.

Thanks,

Tracy.

24-Oct-83 09:09:37-MDT,830;000000000000
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Date: Fri 21 Oct 83 22:08:50-EDT
From: Edward Huang <RMS.G.EH%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Re: BASCOM Patch
To: Wiedemann.4506i1808@RADC-MULTICS.ARPA
cc: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA
In-Reply-To: Message from "Wiedemann.4506i1808@radc-multics" of Fri 21 Oct 83 10:00:00-EDT

Hello,
the Heath BASCOM has a security patch so that it could only
be run under Heath H89 systems -- I am not yet accustomed
to the new SIMTEL system so you may want to ask someone
on retreiving it. I belive its in a note along with FORTRAN
and MACRO-80 patches.   good luck.
-------

24-Oct-83 09:12:10-MDT,897;000000000000
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Date:     21 Oct 83 16:16-EDT (Fri)
From: Stephen Allen <ece660aa.UMass-ECE@rand-relay>
Return-Path: <ece660aa%UMass-ECE.UMASS-ECE@Rand-Relay>
Subject:  What's the best 8088 operating system
To: INFO-CPM@brl
Cc: ece660aa.umass-ece@rand-relay
Via:  UMASS-ECE; 21 Oct 83 19:52-PDT

Hello all,
  I have a Rainbow 100 that uses CP/M 86 (& CP/M 80).
  I also have MS-DOS.  

  I would like some opinions as to what people consider the most
powerful operating system for the 8086 or 8088 is.  I've heard
that UNIX is available on many micros now.  Does any one know
if it will become availble for the 8088 ?
				Steve
24-Oct-83 09:19:46-MDT,1110;000000000000
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Date:     Sun, 23 Oct 83 19:45:42 EDT
From:     Keith Petersen <w8sdz@brl>
To:       Info-Cpm@brl-vgr
Subject:  Drive/User bug in SQ-17

The following is forwarded from my RCPM...

---
There is a bug in SQ17 when using BDS C drive/user prefix notation. SQ17
will actually place the prefix into the squeezed file and write the
output file to the source drive rather than the default drive. This only
happens when using BDS C style drive/user combinations.
 Example:

A1>SQ 0/H:MDM712.ASM

; MDM712.AQM is placed, erroneously, on drive H and has to be
; moved to A1.

A1>USQ MDM712.AQM
; (If you do this and don't have a drive H: you're in deep trouble!)

MDM712.AQM  -->  0/H:MDM712.ASM

USQ20 will place the output file on H0:.
The result, with USQ119, is a file named "0/H" on A1: !!!


Possible remedy:

1. Avoid U/D: whenever possible.
2. Disable U/D in the runtime package.
24-Oct-83 09:26:48-MDT,1012;000000000000
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Date: Sun 23 Oct 83 20:22:09-PDT
From: Jon L. Spear <OTHB@SRI-KL.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Adam
To: strom@BRL-BMD.ARPA
cc: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA
In-Reply-To: Message from "Charlie Strom (NYU) <strom@brl-bmd>" of Fri 21 Oct 83 09:09:30-PDT

I saw a display copy of the Adam at the Markline store in

Waltham, Mass on Sat 22 Oct.  They had just received their first
customer shipment the day before.  If I ordered one today
they said the wait would be about 4 weeks.  Their price is
$675.

I didn't have much time to play with it.  The word processor
in ROM is pretty simple, slightly slow but servicable.  Keyboard
is nice.  Printer is s l o w (<10 cps) and very noisy.  Didn't
see the cassette drive or game cartridges in action.
-------
24-Oct-83 09:32:46-MDT,1262;000000000000
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Date: 19 Oct 83 14:59:51-PDT (Wed)
To: info-cpm@brl
From: decvax!wivax!linus!utzoo!utcsrgv!mts@ucb-vax
Subject: wanted: BIOS's for Compupro equipment
Article-I.D.: utcsrgv.2521

I am loooking for the following for a Compupro 8/16 system:

	CP/M-80 bios - a reasonably advanced one that would support
		one or more of the folowing:
		- interrupt driven IO
		- typeahead 
		- some sort of disk cache-ing
		- a larger TPA (~62k) implemented by using the 8088 for
		  the system calls.
		- support for software M-drive.

	CP/M-816 bios - a switch mechanism to automatically select the
		right operating system depending on command file type.

Any help with the above would be appreciated. I would also like to
hear from anyone who has done any hacking along these lines.

	Martin Stanley
	{decwrl,ihnp4}!utcsrgv!utai!mts
	or 
	...decvax!linus!utzoo!utcsrgv!utai!mts
	or
	(416) 961-4778 anytime
24-Oct-83 09:38:38-MDT,598;000000000000
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Date: Mon 24 Oct 83 03:19:55-CDT
From: Werner Uhrig <CMP.WERNER@UTEXAS-20.ARPA>
Subject: Query: Small-C compiler V. 2.  anyone have it online?
To: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA

would be nice to save the pains of typing it all in. thanks.
BTW, I am referring to the code as printed in Dr. Dobb's Journal of
Dec 82 and Jan 83.
-------
24-Oct-83 09:39:33-MDT,943;000000000000
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Date: 24 October 1983 04:23 EDT
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE@mit-mc>
Subject:  BASCOM Patch
To: w8sdz@brl
cc: Wiedemann.4506i1808@radc-multics, Info-Cpm@brl-vgr
In-reply-to: Msg of Fri 21 Oct 83 13:01:05 EDT from Keith Petersen <w8sdz at brl>

As INFOWORLD said this week:
	If Van Nostrand charged you $100 for the Science
Encyclopedia and then said only one person in your househoud
could read it, what would be the likely result?
	The Constitution forbids monopolies,  except under some
stringent circumstances to encourage the useful arts.  Copyright
law certainly won't protect that "one user" nonsense.  There is
certainly no ethical reason why I should pay police and FBI to
prevent two people from using the same book...

24-Oct-83 09:50:25-MDT,1172;000000000000
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	id AA04933; Mon, 24 Oct 83 06:58:21 pdt
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 83 07:06:08 pdt
From: jlapsley%D.CC@berkeley
Message-Id: <8310241358.AA04933@ucbvax.ARPA>
To: k.decvax!wivax!linus!utzoo!utcsrgv!mts@berkeley, k.info-cpm@brl

   The BIOS for the Compupro 8/16 system you described sounds like some-
thing which I "hear" (by a friend) Gifford & Gifford computers in
San Leandro has.  Compupro's standard 816 bios will differentiate between
8080 and 8086 software, and allows a larger TPA because all the disk calls
are handled under th 8088.  However, the standard Godbout BIOS does not
include typeahead, interrupt driven I/O, or disk cache-ing.  Unfortunately,
I also "hear" that Gifford (if that is indeed who supplies it) wants a
great deal of money for it, and you may have to buy it along with an
entire system.

					Phil
				(jlapsley%D.CC@BERKELEY)
24-Oct-83 11:03:26-MDT,871;000000000000
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Date: 22-Oct-83 19:19:32-EDT
From: jalbers@bnl
Subject: Call for Osborne Executive owners
To: info-cpm@brl, info-micro@brl

Are there any Osborne Executive owners on the net?  I am looking for people who
are willing to trade all forms of software for this machine.  I am willing to
trade/give anything I have, which at this point is mostly stuff adapted from 
the CapOUG library.

                                                           Jon Albers
                                                           jalbers@bnl
                                           ..philabs!sbcs!bnl!jalbers
.
24-Oct-83 11:20:49-MDT,501;000000000000
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Date: 24 October 1983 10:52 EDT
From: Christopher C. Stacy <CSTACY@mit-mc>
Subject: removal
To: INFO-CPM@mit-mc, INFO-MICRO@mit-mc
cc: AUTHOR@mit-mc

Please remove AUTHOR@MIT-MC from INFO-CPM and INFO-MICRO.

thanks,
Chris

24-Oct-83 19:26:25-MDT,760;000000000000
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Date: 24 Oct 1983 07:11-PDT
Sender: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
Subject: Re: Query: Small-C compiler V. 2.  anyone have it online?
From: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
To: CMP.WERNER@utexas-20
Cc: info-cpm@brl
Message-ID: <[USC-ISID]24-Oct-83 07:11:19.ABN.ISCAMS>
In-Reply-To: The message of Mon 24 Oct 83 03:19:55-CDT from Werner Uhrig <CMP.WERNER@UTEXAS-20.ARPA>

Isn't Small-C v2 out in the <MICRO> treasure trove at SIMTEL20?
(I don't have my DIRLST of that directory handy.)

David Kirschbaum
25-Oct-83 08:26:22-MDT,1161;000000000000
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Date: 24 October 1983 21:17 EDT
From: Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml>
To: jlapsley%D.CC@ucb-vax
cc: k.decvax!wivax!linus!utzoo!utcsrgv!mts@ucb-vax, info-cpm@brl
In-reply-to: Msg of Mon 24 Oct 83 07:06:08 pdt from jlapsley%D.CC at berkeley


    From: jlapsley%D.CC at berkeley

       The BIOS for the Compupro 8/16 system you described sounds like some-
    thing which I "hear" (by a friend) Gifford & Gifford computers in
    San Leandro has.  Compupro's standard 816 bios will differentiate between
    8080 and 8086 software, and allows a larger TPA because all the disk calls
    are handled under th 8088.  However, the standard Godbout BIOS does not
    include typeahead, interrupt driven I/O, or disk cache-ing.

If you are talking about the G&G MP/M 8-16, it does include disk
cache-ing, but it's not user-controllable - it allocates some part of
itself for a disk buffer.

25-Oct-83 15:44:18-MDT,483;000000000000
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Date: Tue 25 Oct 83 13:45:53-PDT
From: Steve Vestal <VESTAL@WASHINGTON.ARPA>
Subject: Remove me
To: info-cpm@MIT-MC.ARPA

PPlease remove VESTAL@WASHINGTON, I get all this stuff through usenet anyway.
-------

25-Oct-83 16:19:52-MDT,1302;000000000000
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Date:  25 October 1983 14:41 pdt
From:  Bakin.SSID@hi-multics
Subject:  Olympia People's Machine
To:  info-cpm@brl-vgr
Acknowledge-To:  Bakin.SSID at HI-MULTICS

I was just received some information on Olympia's machine, the "People".

It has:  1 8086 with 5MHz clock.
         2 655Kbyte Diskettes.
         1 80 x 25 line display (640 x 475 pixels -- bit mapped).
         1 Parallel, and 1 Serial (RS232-C) interfaces.
         1 91-key keyboard; 12 fn keys, numeric keypad, cursor controls,
              very non-IBM like (Hurrah) and doesn't look like it is very
              "ergonomic" at all!  (Hurrah Hurrah)
         128Kbytes of memory.

Options include:
         10Mbyte hard disc.
         Color Monitor.
         Memory up to .5Mbyte.
         Two serial and one IEEE 488 interfaces.

It runs CP/M-86, CCP/M-86 and MS DOS.  Its language is Pascal (MT+?),
though a few Low Order Crufts (LOC) like CIS-COBOL, LEVELII COBOL, and
CBASIC may be run.  How much is it?  Sounds neat, is it?  Where do I
find a Fortran for it?  In the LA area, who sells them?

Jerry.
26-Oct-83 11:27:42-MDT,1030;000000000000
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Date:     Wed, 26 Oct 83 12:07:34 EDT
From:     Keith Petersen <w8sdz@brl>
To:       Russ Smith <smith@nrl-aic>
cc:       Info-Cpm@brl-vgr
Subject:  Re:  Request for help (long msg)

This sounds to me like a DCD (Data Carrier Detect) status problem.
After the modem has hung up and there is no longer any carrier,
DCD goes low (unless you have done something with the status
option switches on your Hayes Smartmodem to bypass this).  It may
be that your Interfacer I/O board is set up so that if it does
not have DCD it will not receive characters coming in.  Many serial
cards do this, ignoring input until some external status line line
DSR (Data Set Ready) or DCD (Data Carrier Detect) comes "on".
The reason your terminal works direct is that it's probably
set up to not require these status signals.
--Keith
26-Oct-83 16:39:02-MDT,1241;000000000000
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Date: 26 Oct 1983  16:07 MDT (Wed)
Message-ID: <[SIMTEL20].WANCHO.26-Oct-83 16:07:42>
From: Frank J. Wancho <WANCHO@simtel20>
To:   INFO-CPM@brl
Subject: Bad files in MICRO:<SIGM.*>

I have managed to check those SIG/M volumes against the uploaded
versions for all volumes that had either a CRCKLIST, CRCKFILE, or an
embedded CRC list in the -CATALOG file.  That annotated file is in
MICRO:<SIGM>BAD-SIGM.FILES.

I was unable to certify volumes 01-04, 07-18, and 51-85 as those disks
weren't supplied with CRC lists.  However, with the exception of the
files listed in the file above, the remaining files at least have
CRCs which match the distribution disks.  If you have known good
copies of the volumes listed, please check it against the CRC list of
our uploaded files in MICRO:<SIGM>CRC.EXTRACT, and let me know of any
discrepancies.

I'll be working on checking MICRO:<CPMUG.*> next while we correct the
problems with the SIG/M files.

--Frank
26-Oct-83 18:08:06-MDT,1016;000000000000
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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 83 16:20:12 pdt
From: David Allen Gewirtz <dag%ucbarpa@berkeley>
Message-Id: <8310262320.AA01199@ucbarpa.ARPA>
To: info-cpm@brl, info-micro@brl, jalbers@bnl
Subject: Re:  Call for Osborne Executive owners

Be aware that this network is for non-commercial and restricted
use only.  Using it as a general medium to "trade" software
(which implies commercially sold software) is contrary to the
purposes and should not occur.

Please refrain from this sort of activity in the future or 
our access to this facility may be severely curtailed.
26-Oct-83 18:53:38-MDT,522;000000000000
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Date:  26 October 1983 20:07 edt
From:  Hess.Unicorn@mit-multics
Subject:  Lint for Micros
To:  info-micro@mit-ml
cc:  info-ibmpc@usc-isib, info-cpm@mit-ml

Anybody seen a lint program which runs on MS-DOS, CP/M, or CP/M-86
machines?  Tnx, Brian

27-Oct-83 08:24:08-MDT,1386;000000000000
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Date: Wed 26 Oct 83 22:59:51-CDT
From: John Otken <CC.Otken@UTEXAS-20.ARPA>
Subject: Help with Siemens FDD100-8
To: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA

I am trying to connect two Siemens FDD100-8 floppy disk drives to my
CCS 2422 disk controller and seem to be having a strange problem.  I
can get either drive to work ONLY if it is daisy chained to my
Shurgart 801 on my two drive cable.  Alone the Siemens don't work,
together they don't work, with the 801 they (one at a time) work fine.
When used with the 801, they work as either A or B drive and on either
position of the cable (with proper termination).  When they don't work
they just sit there refusing to select or load the head.  I have spent
considerable time changing this jumper and that jumper and am quite
sure I have made no dumb mistakes (like forgetting the terminating
resistor pack).  I have called CCS and their advice (connect jumpers
J and L, H and F) not only doesn't look right but doesn't work either.

So, has anyone had much luck configuring FDD100-8s especially with the
CCS 2422 disk controller?

John Otken	CC.Otken@Utexas
-------
27-Oct-83 08:29:43-MDT,739;000000000000
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Date:     Thu, 27 Oct 83 6:55:10 EDT
From:     Charlie Strom (NYU) <strom@brl-bmd>
To:       Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml>
cc:       INFO-CPM@brl-vgr
Subject:  MPM vs. CPM


MPM-816 is NOT the same thing as CPM-816; the former is MP/M (multi-user),
the latter is CP/M (single user). You are correct that MPM-816 does include
a cache for the hard disk (64K) that is automatically flushed every 30
seconds. G&G has invested most of their effort in this product rather than
any single user os - a new version of MPM-816 is due out momentarily.
27-Oct-83 11:00:20-MDT,2818;000000000000
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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 83 08:43 PDT
From: DGilbert.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Subject: QBAX Program Disappointing
To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA
cc: DGilbert.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA

I purchased the QBAX file backup program from 'AMANUENSIS', Ver. 1.4
fully expecting a good program based on the Microsystems magazine review.
FORGET IT!  Use the public domain program Archive by Kelly Smith.  The
problems I found with QBAX are as follows:

To provide incremental backup (only those files modified), I assumed that QBAX
would use the CPM 'T3' bit in the directory, the so called archive bit.  NO!
For some reason, QBAX chose to fiddle with byte 'S2' of the directory entry.
Why?  This byte is defined as the EXTENT NUMBER for extents over 31.
Thus to mark a file as 'backed up', the MSB of byte S2 is set.  The side effect
of this is that some directory programs are hopelessly confused.  My system
was set up with SD-71.  When marked as backed up, a 4K file magically
becomes a 132K file.  When all files in the directory as backed up,
I suddenly have over 4 megabytes of used space on my 482k floppy disk!

Another problem with QBAX is its 'flakely'.  By this I mean commands are
NOT user friendly, with unsymetrical operation.  For example.  To mark
all DOC files on drive B as backed up, type QBAX -BB:*.DOC  I had 3
DOC files on the drive, all were marked as backed up as described above.
However, to mark all DOC files as unbacked up, I typed QBAX -UB:*.DOC
and only 1 of the DOC files were changed!  The program may not 
understand the double density directory structure I'm using.  I have 2
logical 16K extents per directory entry.  This is perfectly acceptable and
standard practice.  But some of the early public domain programs were
blown away by this, expecting always to find a '0' numbered extent
as the first directory entry.  These programs were written by persons not
fully understanding the CP/M directory structure.  The first extent of
a long file is always 1 in my case.

When marking files as backed up, the QBAX program seems to mark all
extents of a long file.  But reversing the process, marking the same long
file as unbacked up, only the first extent was reset.  This really caused
problems when trying to fix the directory to eliminate the effects of QBAX.

Lastly, an extensively modified BDOS comes with QBAX, so that it knows
to mark updated files as needing backup.  Archive requires only a simple
patch to use the archive bit in the directory.

In short, the $30 price tag is a rip off!

Doug
 

27-Oct-83 13:37:50-MDT,1516;000000000000
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Date: 27-Oct-83 13:52:33-EDT
From: jalbers@bnl
Subject: Reply to:Re:  Call for Osborne Executive owners
To: dag%ucbarpa@ucb-vax, info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl

Date: Wed, 26 Oct 83 16:20:12 pdt
From: David Allen Gewirtz <dag%ucbarpa@berkeley>
Message-Id: <8310262320.AA01199@ucbarpa.ARPA>
To: info-cpm@brl, info-micro@brl, jalbers@bnl
Subject: Re:  Call for Osborne Executive owners

Be aware that this network is for non-commercial and restricted
use only.  Using it as a general medium to "trade" software
(which implies commercially sold software) is contrary to the
purposes and should not occur.

Please refrain from this sort of activity in the future or 

David, I am well aware of the rules.  In no way did I wish to imply
that I was going to engage in such activity.  When I stated I wanted
to trade software, I ment PUBLIC DOMAIN software, of which there are
no commercial ties.  I am sure you are justly concerned, but I believe
the users of this list know what I mean, since I am not the first 
person who has posted such a message.

                                                  Jon Albers
                                                  jalbers@bnl
our access to this facility may be severely curtailed.

27-Oct-83 17:34:09-MDT,1389;000000000000
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Date:     Thu, 27 Oct 83 18:38:10 EDT
From:     Ron Natalie <ron@brl-vgr>
To:       jalbers@bnl
cc:       dag%ucbarpa@ucb-vax, info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl
Subject:  Re:  Re: Call for Osborne Executive owners

As moderator of these lists (INFO-MICRO and INFO-CPM) I do read what
goes out on them and when they become contrary to DCA policy I do send
a note to the originator privately.  I refrain from sending copies to
the entire list because I don't feel it is necessary to publically
chastise a user for doing something he may not know is wrong.  I only
intervene on the list when the problem looks as if it may perpetuate
itself.

If you have any questions about the legallity or proper use of these
lists I encourage you to discuss it with the person who originated
the traffic and with the appropriate "-REQUEST" address.  Please do
not send these messages to the entire list.

With regard to JALBERS attempting to establish an OSBORNE SIG, I feel
that this is exactly the function of these lists and find no fault with
it.

-Ron Natalie
INFO-MICRO-REQUEST@BRL-VGR
INFO-CPM-REQUEST@BRL-VGR
27-Oct-83 18:57:27-MDT,794;000000000000
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Date: 27 October 1983 20:16 EDT
From: Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml>
Subject:  MPM vs. CPM
To: strom@brl-bmd
cc: info-cpm@brl
In-reply-to: Msg of Thu 27 Oct 83 6:55:10 EDT from Charlie Strom (NYU) <strom at brl-bmd>

tnx for the correction - i made unwarranted assumptions.  however, is
the shell which allows 8 bit software to be run specifically dependent
on MPM?  Also, do you know if there is a way to change the size of the
disk cache (or to turn off buffering?)  Any info on how the new MPM
will differ from the old?

28-Oct-83 09:06:49-MDT,955;000000000000
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Date: 23 Oct 83 5:03:26-PDT (Sun)
To: info-cpm@brl
From: hplabs!hao!seismo!philabs!sbcs!bnl!jalbers@ucb-vax
Subject: Osborne Executive owners ......
Article-I.D.: bnl.217

    If there are any Osborne Executive owners out there, please contact
 me.  I have some software that I am willing to exchange.

    Also, does anyone have the Universial Terminal Emulator?  I was 
 promised it, but from OCC's condition now, I don't think I will be 
 getting it from them.

                                                  Jon Albers
                                            ...philabs!sbcs!bnl!jalbers
28-Oct-83 09:37:14-MDT,1651;000000000000
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Date:     Thu, 27 Oct 83 21:07:57 EDT
From:     Charlie Strom (NYU) <strom@brl-bmd>
To:       DGilbert.ES@parc-maxc.arpa
cc:       Strom@brl-bmd, INFO-CPM@brl-vgr
Subject:  Re:  QBAX Program Disappointing


I don't know where you bought QBAX, but it sounds like either you did not
read the manual or you are describing another program completely!

QBAX does NOT come with an "extensively modified" BDOS; the vanilla BDOS
will work just fine, though a patcher is included which will make a small
modification of the BDOS to recognize files that have been backed up in
situ, as might result from a random write. This is unusual in that most programs
do not use this feature; in fact I have run across a grand total of one.

The technique used by the author is in keeping with D.R. rules. The author
(an acquaintance) tells me that his method is more robust than that used
in ARCHIVE.ASM.

There are literaly hundreds of satisfied users of QBAX who run all kinds
of public domain software with no trouble whatsoever. I cannot say for sure
that SD runs OK with it, but I intend to check. I am somewhat predjudiced,
since as I stated, I have spoken to the author and helped him in beta tests
before QBAX was released, but we have never met. He is rather upset that
you did not see fit to contact him with your problems before attacking his
program. I hope to transmit your complaints to him so that he has an
opportunity to respond.
28-Oct-83 09:37:16-MDT,1097;000000000000
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From:     Charlie Strom (NYU) <strom@brl-bmd>
To:       Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml>
cc:       INFO-CPM@brl-vgr
Subject:  Re:  MPM vs. CPM


The SW.CMD file, which MPM-816 invokes to run 8 bit applications may
run on a non-MP/M system. I am really not sure. The MP/M system I fiddle
with is at NYU; I purchased CP/M-816 for use at home (how about that, I
didn't even do any pirating!)

I don't think that there is a simple way to change the size of the
cache that MPM-816 uses. As for the new version, all I know thus far is
that there will be a USER.CMD which can be passworded (thank goodness) rather
than an intrinsic USER command, and that inter-terminal communication in
real time will be supported. I assume there are more substantive changes,
but I don't know what they are. The upgrade costs $75 ti registered G&G
(NOT COMPUPRO) MPM-816 users.
28-Oct-83 09:37:34-MDT,2878;000000000000
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From: DGILBERT.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA
Date: 27 Oct 83 20:44:23 PDT
Subject: QBAX IS OK - CORRECTION & APOLOGY
To: INFO-CPM@BRL.ARPA
cc: DGILBERT.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA


QBAX REVISITED - I Should have called Amanuensis first!!!!!

MY QBAX WORKS FINE.

The Author of QBAX called me tonight regarding the problems
I was having with the file backup program QBAX with the
following result:

	QBAX is a good program and at $30 is definitely a
	bargain.
	
	QBAX can work as advertised, and I intend to use it
	in my system, with the advantages it has over the public
	domain program Archive.
	
	I apologize to Amanuensis and the author who called me 
	for my temporary insanity and ignorance.  In my own
	defense, there was a small bug in QBAX which is easily
	fixed.
	
SO WHY THE CHANGE IN MY OPINION?  WHAT HAPPENED?????

FILE SIZE PROBLEM:

SD-71, the public domain program, incorrectly handles the 'S2'
directory bit.  Only the lower 4 bits of this byte have any
meaning to CP/M.  QBAX used the MSB as previously stated.  The
problem here is mis-information in many CP/M books. In my case,
I was misled by 'INSIDE CP/M' by David Cortesi. Using 'S2' has
the advantage that CP/M updates it for writes other than a 
direct random file update.  Therefore, most users can live without
any BDOS patch at all.  The QBAX patch to BDOS is very easy to
implement, however.  Thus, a fix to SD-71 will correct the
file size problem.

SMALL BUG:

The problem I had with double density directories and commands
'sometimes doing something funny' was traced to a small bug
in the program.  I was quickly given the 1 byte correction.  The
correction needed will be sent to all previous purchasers of
the program.


In all, I will definitely be more responsible in the future with
my criticism.  Calling the person or company selling the software
product when a problem occurs is always the first step.  If I
had called Amanuensis first, it would have saved my embarrassment
and any damage to QBAX's reputation which I hope is minimal.
Later, if a company is not responsive, then maybe some criticism
is required.  The author of QBAX is very concerned about any
program problems and will respond to them.

My last statement was definitely not called for.  I want to 
encourage more software being sold at reasonable prices.  I
believe that the selling of excellent programs for less than
$50 is commendable and benefits all computer users, and in
the long run will benefit the authors of these programs.

PLEASE DELIVER MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE TO THE BYTE BUCKET!

Doug.
 
31-Oct-83 07:27:54-MST,8112;000000000000
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Date:     Fri, 28 Oct 83 23:09:54 EDT
From:     Bob Bloom (TECOM) <bbloom@brl>
To:       info-cpm@brl
Subject:  Review of File Maintenance Utilities

I have, at the moment, 7 file maintenance utilites.  They're the (hopefully 
small) utilities used to clean up disks - they can delete, copy, rename, etc.  
Unfortunately, none does everything I want to do.  "SWEEP" comes closest, but 
is too large.  Here's the review:  (Comments are welcome.)

File Utility Name    |CLEANUP| WASH | DISK |TFILER|NSWEEP|VFILER|SWEEP |SDFMU |
Version              |1/20/80| 1.4  | 1.7c | 1.7  | 1.9  | 2.0  | 3.5  | ?.?  |
Size (1k blocks)     |   1k  |  3k  |  4k  |  6k  |  7k  |  8k  | 27k  | ~?k  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      | <12> |      |      |
Display              |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
   Filename .........|   *   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   File Size ........|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   *  |   -  |   *  |   *  |
   Attributes .......|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |
   Disk letter ......|   -   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   User # ...........|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   $SYS Files .......|   *   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   4  |
   Alphabetic List ..|   -   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |  10  |   *  |   *  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
Deletion             |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
   File-by-File .....|   *   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   Mass Delete ......|   -   |  -   |   -  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   $R/O w/Verify ....|   C   |  C   |   C  |   C  |   C  |   C  |   *  |   *  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
Copy                 |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
   To Another Disk ..|   -   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   To Another User ..|   -   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   Auto Verification |   -   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   -  |   *  |   -  |   -  |
   Opt Verification .|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   *  |   -  |   *  |   *  |
   Mass Copy ........|   -   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   Overwrite w/Verify|   -   |  *   |   7  |   *  |   -  |   *  |   -  |   *  |
   Overwrite $RO w/V |   -   |  C   |   C  |   C  |   C  |   C  |   5  |   *  |
   & Rename .........|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |
   Back to Same Dsk .|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |   *  |
   With PIP Options .|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |
   Concatinate Files |   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |
   Error Full Dsk ...|   -   |  W   |   W  |   W  |   W  |   W  |   W  |   W  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
Rename               |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
   File-by-File .....|   -   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   Mass Rename ......|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   1  |   -  |   *  |   *  |
   Rename R/O w/Ver .|   -   |  C   |   C  |   C  |   C  |   C  |   *  |   *  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
View                 |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
   Straight listing .|   *   |  *   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |   -  |
   View by Pages ....|   -   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   -  |   *  |
   Output to LST: ...|   -   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   -  |   -  |
   Ouptut to PUN: ...|   -   |  *   |   *  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
Menu on Start-up ....|   *   |  *   |   *  |   -  |   *  |   -  |   *  |   -  |
Menu on Demand ......|   -   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
Screen Oriented .....|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |   -  |   *  |
Line Oriented .......|   *   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   -  |   *  |   *  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
Tagging              |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
   Tag/untag files ..|   -   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   Retag files ......|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   *  |   -  |   *  |   *  |
   Mass tag/untag ...|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |   -  |   -  |
   Copied tag .......|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   *  |   -  |   *  |   *  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
Switch Disks ........|   -   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
Switch User # .......|   -   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
View all User #'s ...|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   6  |   -  |   *  |   *  |
View file subset ....|   *   |  *   |   *  |   -  |   6  |   -  |   *  |   *  |
Start on alt Dsk ....|   *   |  *   |   *  |   -  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
Start on alt Usr ....|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
Movement             |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
   Forward .........|   *   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   Backward .........|   -   |  *   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
   Sideways .........|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   2  |   -  |   2  |
   Multiple Screens .|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |   -  |   *  |
   Goto File ........|   -   |  -   |   -  |   *  |   -  |   *  |   *  |   -  |
   Jump .............|   -   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
Free Space           |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
   On Dsk on Entry ..|   -   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   -  |   *  |   *  |
   On other Dsks ....|   -   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |   *  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
File size on Demand .|   -   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   3  |   *  |   3  |   3  |
Tagged files size ...|   -   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   *  |   9  |   8  |   8  |
# Files Selected ....|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   *  |   -  |   *  |   *  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
Change Attributes ...|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |
Squeeze/Unsqueeze ...|   -   |  -   |   -  |   -  |   1  |   -  |   -  |   -  |
                     |       |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |
Warm Boot Exit ......|   -   |  *   |   -  |   -  |   -  |   -  |   *  |   -  |
Quick non-boot Exit .|   *   |  -   |   *  |   *  |   *  |  11  |   -  |   *  |

* - Has this attribute
- - Doesn't have this
C - Crashes with $R/O error if you try this
W - Error is trapped, gives warning

Notes:
1.  On Menu, not currently working
2.  Cursor keys active (^,v,<,>)
3.  File size shown as part of listing
4.  Hide/Show system files on demand
5.  Warning Given, no Crash
6.  Only on initial entry
7.  No warning if mass copy
8.  Both in current block size and 1k block size
9.  Shown only during a tag operation
10. Sort by filename OR filetype
11. User choice of exit
12. Vfiler also contains other attributes in ZCPR environment

SDFMU is "Super-Duper File Maintenance Utility" - it does not exist but is my 
combination of best features of all of them.  Corrections or reviews of other 
programs are welcome.  Anybody care to write "SDFM"?

-Bob Bloom
31-Oct-83 07:28:02-MST,494;000000000000
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Date: 28 Oct 1983 19:55:20-PDT
From: CCVAX.trest@nosc
To: INFO-CPM@mit-mc

Please Add Me to your List.  THANKS!!

	trest@nosc
	trest@nosc-tecr

	Mike Trest
	4065 Hancock Street
	San Diego, Ca 92110
	(619)225-1980

31-Oct-83 07:28:48-MST,689;000000000000
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Date: 28 Oct 1983 23:16-PDT
Sender: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
Subject: Bob Bloom's Review of File Maintenance Utilities
From: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
To: INFO-CPM@brl-vgr
Message-ID: <[USC-ISID]28-Oct-83 23:16:50.ABN.ISCAMS>

Friends in NetLand:

Be sure to catch, ask for, whatever -- Bob Bloom's tremendous in-depth
message/study on file maintenance utilities.  What a nice job!

My compliments, sir, and my thanks for an excellent piece of reference work.

David Kirschbaum
Toad Hall
31-Oct-83 07:28:58-MST,872;000000000000
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Date:     Sat, 29 Oct 83 17:10:28 EDT
From:     Keith Petersen <w8sdz@brl>
To:       DGilbert.ES@parc-maxc
cc:       Info-Cpm@brl-vgr
Subject:  Re:  QBAX Program Disappointing

It is my understanding that the CP/M "S2 byte" (extended extent byte)
actually uses only the lower nibble for the extended extent information
(this from Bruce Ratoff, a person I consider an expert on CP/M 2.2).
If this is so, the high-order bit being used by QBAX should cause no
problems unless the directory programs (SD71 in particular) are incorrectly
written to look at the whole byte instead of just the lower nibble.
I consider this to be a fault in SD71, not QBAX.
--Keith
31-Oct-83 07:29:07-MST,855;000000000000
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Date: 29 Oct 1983 20:02:25-PDT
From: Ty Wernet <CCVAX.ty@nosc>
Reply-to: CCVAX.ty@nosc
To: DGilbert.ES@parc-maxc, info-cpm@brl.ARPA
Subject: Re:  QBAX Program Disappointing
Cc: DGilbert.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA

Where does one find the backup implementation done by Kelley Smith.  We have
had similiar experiences with QBAX.  Also if you have implemented the PUBLIC
patch and are trying to do an "incremental" backup it is always finding backed
up files in user 0 to try and backup them again..

Thanks in advance for the Direction towards Kelley Smith's implementation.

ty@nosc
31-Oct-83 07:31:19-MST,1158;000000000000
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Date:     Sun, 30 Oct 83 10:34:28 EST
From:     Bob Bloom (TECOM) <bbloom@brl>
To:       ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid
cc:       info-cpm@brl
Subject:  My File Maintenance Utilities Review

Thanks for the kudos, but ...

What I'm really looking for is corrections/additions to the reveiw.
If you have a favorite of your own, public domain or otherwise, send
it to me and I'll re-summarize.  (You can do wonderful things with
WordStar's column mode!)

And additional notes I've just learned:  "WASH" might not be public
domain, all the others are.  Anybody really know?  And VFILER been
revised and the version reviewed was not extensively tested in a 
plain CP/M environment (I use ZCPR2).  It's neat if you run ZCPR,
some wasted capability if you don't.  (Did I get it right Rich?)

I'll be out a week (hope I can stand the computer withdrawal symtoms)
will report on the answers I get after Nov 5.

bob bloom  (unix "habbit" - all lower case)
31-Oct-83 07:33:01-MST,1529;000000000000
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Date: 30 October 1983 19:06 EDT
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@mit-mc>
Subject: Digital Research RMAC modification
To: Info-Cpm@brl-vgr

This is forwarded from my RCPM.  It came from Sigi Kluger.

---
El Paso, TX, 10/18/83

When I wrote LDIR a few hours ago, I realized that RMAC was unable to
handle the job, since it would wipe out DOLLAR-SIGNS in labels.  Some
SYSLIB routines, however, use them in external references...

	EXTRN	F$OPEN		in RMAC is synonymous to
	EXTRN	FOPEN

and LINK would complain about the missing symbol FOPEN!

Now, there just HADT TO BE a better way than M80, and after a lot of
DU'ing and DDT'ing, I found it! In RMAC ver 1.1 you find the following
code starting at address 1D76:

L1D76:	CPI	'$'
	RNZ
	XRA	A
	MOV	M,A
	RET

Now, to be able to use RMAC instead of M80 for *ALL* your SYSLIB work,
make a NOP out of the MOV M,A instruction! Remember, the address is only
good for my version of RMAC, as supplied with an early version of CP/M plus.
Your RMAC may be a bit different, but the code should be in the general
area.

With the availability of CP/M plus, more people will probably use RMAC
than M80, and this easy patch (which seems to have NO ILL EFFECTS) allows
use of SYSLIB with RMAC.

My recommendation: reformat SYSLIB into an IRL file for faster searching.

31-Oct-83 07:33:11-MST,1198;000000000000
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Date: 30 October 1983 19:08 EDT
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@mit-mc>
Subject: Digital Research LINK modification
To: Info-Cpm@brl-vgr

This is forwarded from my RCPM.  It came from Sigi Kluger.

---
El Paso TX  10-29-83

How often have you inadvertently struck a key while Digital Research's
LINK was linking a file? If you've ever done it (especially where you
had to type a long command line or the linking took a while) you know
how frustrating it is when LINK aborts. It is a mystery to me why DRI
would allow LINK to abort on ANY keyboard entry. Fortunately, the
changes to prevent that are trivial. Simply use your favorite debugger,
load LINK.COM and change location 368B from 0E to AF and 368C from 0B to C9.
This causes the console status routine to always return "console not ready."

NOTE: platch is valid for LINK ver 1.31 only. The code to be changed is
from 0E 0B C3 05 00  (MVI C,0B ! JMP BDOS)
to   AF C9 .. .. ..  (XRA A ! RET)
and can be found using DDTF or DU.

31-Oct-83 07:33:25-MST,2396;000000000000
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Date: 30 October 1983 19:15 EDT
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@mit-mc>
Subject: Extracting specific area codes from PAMS list
To: Info-Cpm@brl-vgr, Info-Micro@brl-vgr

Bill Blue's "PAMS" list of all known public access message and file
transfer systems is very useful, but I have had several requests
recently for a way to extract specific area code entries.  I don't
normally send source code via netmail, but since this is short and
quite a few people wanted it, I make an exception.  It's a good
study in how to use Microsoft Basic to scan an ASCII file for any
specific string and write out these lines to an output file.

---
10 REM		PAMSAREA.BAS ver. 1.0, 9/8/83
20 REM by James Petersen, WD8CLE and Keith Petersen, W8SDZ
30 REM This program is for use with OTHERSYS (Bill Blue's PAMS list)
40 REM to make an output file which contains the phone numbers of
50 REM only a single area code.  It was used to make AREA-313.BBS
60 REM on this system.  Written for Microsoft Basic-80 ver. 5.x
70 OPEN "I",1,"OTHERSYS.SEP":REM Put input filename here
80 OPEN "O",2,"AREA-313.BBS":REM Put your area code in place of 313
90 PRINT #2,"         Extracted from Bill Blue's latest PAMS list"
100 PRINT #2,""
110 WHILE NOT EOF(1)
120 LINE INPUT #1,A$
130 L=INSTR(1,A$,"(313)"):REM Put your area code in place of 313
140 IF L<>0 THEN PRINT #2,A$
150 WEND
160 PRINT #2,""
170 PRINT #2,"        *  denotes 24-hour operation"
180 PRINT #2,"        +  denotes 8-12 hour DAYTIME operation ONLY"
190 PRINT #2,"        -  denotes 8-12 hour NIGHTTIME operation ONLY"
200 PRINT #2,"        !  new system or new number to existing system"
210 PRINT #2,"        $  Supports VADIC 1200 baud operation"
220 PRINT #2,"        &  Supports 212A 1200 baud operation"
230 PRINT #2,"        %  Supports BAUDOT operation"
240 PRINT #2,"       #1  denotes original system of that type"
250 PRINT #2,"       dd. denotes game oriented messages"
260 PRINT #2,"       dl. download/program exchange system"
270 PRINT #2,"       ml. mail/information exchange only"
280 PRINT #2,"       rb. denotes call, let ring once and call back"
290 PRINT #2,"       rl. religious orientation"
300 CLOSE:END

31-Oct-83 07:34:02-MST,515;000000000000
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Date:     Sun, 30 Oct 83 20:15:07 EST
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@brl>
To:       Bob Bloom (TECOM) <bbloom@brl>
cc:       info-cpm@brl
Subject:  Re:  Review of File Maintenance Utilities

Hi, Bob,

	I really like your list.  Certainly looks comprehensive.  Does
anyone have anything else to add?

		Rick
31-Oct-83 07:34:11-MST,1122;000000000000
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Date:     Sun, 30 Oct 83 20:24:04 EST
From:     Rick Conn <rconn@brl>
To:       Bob Bloom (TECOM) <bbloom@brl>
cc:       ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid, info-cpm@brl
Subject:  Re:  My File Maintenance Utilities Review

Bob,

	VFILER 2.0 is the current version.  It is soon to be revised, tho.
As a side note, ALL of the ZCPR2 utilities are about to be reviewed and
(quite probably) revised, as well as the ZCPR2 System in general.  Version 1.0
of the ZCPR2 System is currently scheduled for release in April 84.  I don't
anticipate any preliminary releases of its utilities until then, tho, because
of confusion and other problems it could cause.

	I have viewed Mod 0.3 of ZCPR2 (and the ZCPR2 System) to be a useful
ED Model, and am viewing Version 1.0 of ZCPR2 (and the ZCPR2 System) as a
production model (with some new ED features added).

	More detail later as bits and pieces become operational.

		Rick
31-Oct-83 07:34:33-MST,931;000000000000
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Date: 30 October 1983  20:05-PST (Sunday)
Sender: TLI@usc-eclb
From: Tony Li <Tli%usc@BRL.ARPA>
To:   Info-Cpm@brl
Subject: Archive Bits...
Reply-to: Tli@usc-eclb
Home: 1275 W. 29th #211, Los Angeles, Ca. 90007  (213) 737-8168


Is the S2 byte (in CP/M 2.2) the same as the T3 bit (CCP/M)?  If not, then
you'll probably have problems when your archiving programs get ported to
subsequent DRI OS's.  

In my CCP/M Programmer's Reference guide, the T3 bit set indicates that the
file has been archived.  This is the high-order bit of the third byte of the
filetype.  This is also the high-order bit of the 12th byte in the FCB.

Cheers,
Tony ;-)
31-Oct-83 07:35:09-MST,612;000000000000
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Date: Mon 31 Oct 83 00:17:22-EST
From: Mark Becker <CENT.MBECK%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Digital Research's MAC patch?
To: info-cpm@BRL-VGR.ARPA

This request for info comes right after seeing the dollarsign patch
note for RMAC.....

1.  Has anyone seen a patch for MAC 2.0 that preserves
    lowercase in the .PRN file?

2.  Ditto #1 for dollarsigns.

Thanks in advance -
					Mark Becker
-------

31-Oct-83 10:07:51-MST,435;000000000000
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Date:     31 October 1983 1118-est
From:     Tom Davenport <Davenport.MSEHQ@mit-multics>
Subject:  Please add me to the list.
To:       Info-CPM@mit-mc

Thanks!

